Double Bass Recommend Strings for a Bluegrass Noob

D

DFreshest

Jun 20, 2022
13
18
836
Pennsylvania
#1
I just started on the double bass about 6 months ago, after playing bass guitar for about 20 years. I'm not a pro BG player by any stretch, but I'm solid and I keep good time. Double bass is definitely a struggle, but it's been really fun to learn.

I recently bought a 1939 American Standard, very battle-worn, but super cool. I don't know anything about DB strings, but I can only assume the strings that are on it would be considered high tension steel, or some other kind of metal. They are absolutely brutal on the fingers, even after weeks of fairly consistent practice. I had my first gig on Saturday and after 2 hours of playing, the blisters were broken and bleeding.

One of the other bassists I met had a set of LaBella 1006's. I plucked those and was blown away by how easy they were to play compared to mine.

So here's what I'm looking for:
  • I will primarily be playing bluegrass, and I want to experiment with slapping.
  • I've heard that practicing with a bow really improves your awareness of intonation and left had position, and I think it would be fun to try arco if I ever get a bow.
In terms of percentages, I'd say:
  • 75% pizz
  • 20% slap
  • 5% arco
I guess I just want something that is easier to play, but still a little bit versatile because I'm just learning and experimenting. I don't have anyone in particular that I want to sound like... maybe Barry Bales, but I know he plays a combination of different gut strings.

For now, I just need something fairly affordable until I figure out what I'm doing on the DB.

Hopefully that's enough info for a recommendation. Thank you!
 
#3
My playing preference percentages are very similar to yours... And I'm primarily in bluegrass and other roots genre. I primarily do a light slap/tap for bluegrass and old jazz.

Until earlier this month I was playing a mixed set consisting of Innovation SilverSlaps E and A strings under Superior BassWorks Deluxe "Dirty Guts" D (.105") and G (.095"). These actually make a pretty respectable mixed set and I'd still be playing them if it wasn't for...

Aquila has just come out with a set of strings targeting rockabilly, bluegrass, traditional jazz and other roots genre, simulating gut tone and feel -- they're called Sugar Slaps. I'm using them now and am extremely happy with them. They are very noticeably louder and clearer than my old mixed set, they are extremely easy on the hands and on my DB their tone is as close to gut as I've heard in a synthetic string.

Here's a forum thread about these strings in TB/DB discussing these and other Aquila strings: Thread: About a possible replica of the Kaplan Golden Spiral gut strings. The discussion about Sugar Slaps starts about here.

I would recommend these strings to just about anyone, but there are some things you in particular should be aware of before you move to any synthetics that are trying to sound like guts, because your current DB setup is for thin high tension steel strings... Gut and synthetic gut-like strings are characteristically fat, low tension strings and they move a lot when they are struck in pizz, so that means your nut and bridge string notches need to be widened for fat strings, and your action probably needs to be raised, and, you may also need to have more relief put into your fingerboard by a luthier. And, you may also need to adjust your pizz technique so that your low strings don't buzz against your fingerboard all the time.

One other consideration, Sugar Slaps are not made for arco. I am able to start the E and A strings, but the D and G strings seem to be unmoved by the bow... I haven't tried more aggressive rosin yet, but if you go with Sugar Slaps, it's best to not plan on much if any bowing.

Once those considerations are taken care of, to me it sounds like Sugar Slaps are made for your sore hands.

Good luck in your DB journey!
 
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#9
dhergert said:
Gut and synthetic gut-like strings are characteristically fat, low tension strings and they move a lot when they are struck in pizz, so that means your nut and bridge string notches need to be widened for fat strings, and your action probably needs to be raised, and, you may also need to have more relief put into your fingerboard by a luthier. And, you may also need to adjust your pizz technique so that your low strings don't buzz against your fingerboard all the time.
Click to expand...

@dhergert: I'm guessing I can widen the notches in both the nut and the bridge on my own. Can you tell me more about the relief in the fingerboard and raising the action? I assume that means both raising the bridge and adjusting the nut.

My bridge is adjustable, so I assume that's easy enough, but how does one adjust the nut if it is too low? On a bass guitar, my setup guy just used CA glue and baking soda to fill in slots when necessary, but I can only assume that's not an option on a DB.

I guess the next question would be, where do I find a luthier if I need one? I'm kind of located out in the boonies, so it can be difficult to find people like that.

Sorry for all the questions! I've been on an island all by myself until I found this forum.
 
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#11
DFreshest said:
My bridge is adjustable, so I assume that's easy enough, but how does one adjust the nut if it is too low? On a bass guitar, my setup guy just used CA glue and baking soda to fill in slots when necessary, but I can only assume that's not an option on a DB.
Click to expand...

Actually, the glue-and-baking-soda method does work for double bass - not the best solution, but it works.

However, it's pretty rare that double-bass nut slots are too low. If you think about the geometry of a double-bass string coming out of the nut, you realize that the string should be almost touching the fingerboard at the nut. The string's excursion at that point is close to zero.

Regarding "Where to find a luthier?": If you tell us where you are, someone may be able to help.
 
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#14
I put at least 50 different sets of strings on old American Standards every year; often 3-4x that. It will get twice the volume and power for the E & A strings if you use Spirocore mediums. (I use a stark E!) Put real gut on the D G like Labellas & you have a powerhouse. Avoid all of the hipster plastic synthetic crap; you'll just be wasting time and money and pay a tone penalty......yes, I said it....;)
 
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#15
DFreshest said:
I'm guessing I can widen the notches in both the nut and the bridge on my own.
Click to expand...

You can, if you have some jewelers files that include a size-variety of small rat-tail rasps. It's complicated by needing to get angles, depth and width just right, but it isn't one of the most complicated jobs on the double bass. That said, some people would much prefer to have a luthier do this work.

DFreshest said:
Can you tell me more about the relief in the fingerboard and raising the action? I assume that means both raising the bridge and adjusting the nut.
Click to expand...

Relief definitely would be a luthier's job unless you've done a lot of double bass fingerboards before, or unless you're comfortable experimenting with something on your double bass that could require a new fingerboard if you don't get it just right. It involves changing the bow in the fingerboard for the path of each string, while taking into consideration the radius of the fingerboard along the whole length of the fingerboard, sort of a 3-D shaping project. It's much more complex than doing this kind of relief work on a fretted instrument, especially with flat fingerboards.

Action would be changed at your bridge, with adjusters if you have them; they are usually pretty easy to change, unless there is no adjustment left in the up or down direction you want to bring the bridge crown, or unless the adjusters are stuck or stripped. If you don't have adjusters and don't want them, this could alternatively be done by filing/sanding to reduce the bridge height at the bottom of the bridge feet, or by increasing the height by laminating wood to the bottom of the bridge feet, and then re-shaping the bridge feet to match the contour of the double bass top where the feet stand -- this is obviously pretty complicated and may also be best done by a luthier.

DFreshest said:
... but how does one adjust the nut if it is too low? On a bass guitar, my setup guy just used CA glue and baking soda to fill in slots when necessary, but I can only assume that's not an option on a DB.
Click to expand...

Your nut on a DB isn't likely going to need adjustment down after the notches are reset for the fatter strings. In other words, the process of filing wider notches will also deepen the strings within the nut. The big thing is to not go too deep, for example, notching into the fingerboard, as that would change your string length and mess up your fingering positions. Fingering positions will change anyway with thicker strings, but the changes will be consistent unless you file into the fingerboard, which changes the essential scale length of the string.
DFreshest said:
I guess the next question would be, where do I find a luthier if I need one? I'm kind of located out in the boonies, so it can be difficult to find people like that.
Click to expand...

Probably the best bet is doing a google search for double bass repair people or double bass builders in your county. If that results in nothing, try your state, and if that results in nothing, try adjacent states. Keep in mind that you want someone who routinely works on double basses, not a generic instrument repair or setup person. You may also want to check this person's references to make sure you're completely comfortable with this person working on your double bass.

The good news is that an experienced double bass repair person or builder would be able to handle all of this for you; this is all what is known as setup work on a double bass, plus you'll probably also get sound post adjustment as part of the service. Bring your new strings and let the person doing the work install them as part of the setup process. The money would be very well spent, as you'll get hand relief as soon as you start playing with the new strings. I would expect to spend at least a couple hundred dollars for the work.

Keep in mind that new strings have to stretch-in and they have to break in. Especially with synthetic strings, you will probably have to re-tune the strings very often over the first week or so. And the break in period may last for a month or so. Eventually you'll realize that you don't have to re-tune much at all anymore, and that the strings are sounding consistently good from one week to the next.
 
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#16
DFreshest said:
I just started on the double bass about 6 months ago, after playing bass guitar for about 20 years. I'm not a pro BG player by any stretch, but I'm solid and I keep good time. Double bass is definitely a struggle, but it's been really fun to learn.

I recently bought a 1939 American Standard, very battle-worn, but super cool. I don't know anything about DB strings, but I can only assume the strings that are on it would be considered high tension steel, or some other kind of metal. They are absolutely brutal on the fingers, even after weeks of fairly consistent practice. I had my first gig on Saturday and after 2 hours of playing, the blisters were broken and bleeding.

One of the other bassists I met had a set of LaBella 1006's. I plucked those and was blown away by how easy they were to play compared to mine.

So here's what I'm looking for:
  • I will primarily be playing bluegrass, and I want to experiment with slapping.
  • I've heard that practicing with a bow really improves your awareness of intonation and left had position, and I think it would be fun to try arco if I ever get a bow.
In terms of percentages, I'd say:
  • 75% pizz
  • 20% slap
  • 5% arco
I guess I just want something that is easier to play, but still a little bit versatile because I'm just learning and experimenting. I don't have anyone in particular that I want to sound like... maybe Barry Bales, but I know he plays a combination of different gut strings.

For now, I just need something fairly affordable until I figure out what I'm doing on the DB.

Hopefully that's enough info for a recommendation. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Re: a luthier - what about Mike Shank? I think it's Mike. He is often mentioned, and I believe is somewhere in PA.

Re: strings - I suggest you find strings that make your bass sound the best, regardless of the genre. I've played bluegrass for about 40 years now, and have always used Spirocores in one form or another. That's on old Kays, and newer hybrids. I've always been able to get my basses set up to be easy to play. Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of some mystical "thump" or "traditional bluegrass bass" sound. I'm a fan of solid, supportive volume, and as much clarity as I can get in the mix.
 
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#17
BobKay said:
Re: strings - I suggest you find strings that make your bass sound the best, regardless of the genre. I've played bluegrass for about 40 years now, and have always used Spirocores in one form or another. That's on old Kays, and newer hybrids. I've always been able to get my basses set up to be easy to play. Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of some mystical "thump" or "traditional bluegrass bass" sound. I'm a fan of solid, supportive volume, and as much clarity as I can get in the mix.
Click to expand...

I play bluegrass with old Spiros and I think they sound fine for the genre. The big wooly thump that we all think is typical in bluegrass can sound great to your ears while you are playing, but I find that the audience hears a lot less of the high end information than you do. Your "thump" can get lost in the mix where my "twang" sounds just right to the audience.

Plus, given how no-nonsense, versatile, and long-lasting a set of Spiros is, I'd say everyone should give them a try to see if they meets their needs. If they do: set and forget.
 
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#18
I played a bluegrass-centric festival this weekend with my (non-bluegrass) band and saw a ton of really good upright bass players. I only saw one bassist use gut strings (with steel underneath) and zero with nylon strings. The vast majority had Spirocore Weich or Mittel. Not a single one sounded twangy to my ears either on stage or jamming.
 
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#19
@dhergert Wow, that was an incredibly detailed response. Thank you for all of the good information. I bought the bass from a luthier in Ohio, but his main focus was violins and violas, with more of a classical focus than bluegrass, folk, or even jazz, so I thought finding someone else might be a good idea.

Thanks to @HateyMcAmp, @Abington, @BobKay, @james condino, @Jay Corwin and everyone else for your input as well. This is truly a great forum.

I will definitely check out the Spirocores as well.
 
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