Relative String Tension (4-string vs. 5-string)

sumeursault

sumeursault

Jun 21, 2006
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#1
I just purchased two basses: a Yamaha BBP34 and BBP35. While they're obviously very similar, one of the more obvious differences is that the string tension on the 5-string is noticeably "floppier", and not just on the B-string. It's also noticeable on the E and A strings. I've set up the two basses almost identically, and they presumably come with the same set of strings.

My question: Is there an inherent reason why this would be the case, all other things being equal?
 
#9
meursault42 said:
I just purchased two basses: a Yamaha BBP34 and BBP35. While they're obviously very similar, one of the more obvious differences is that the string tension on the 5-string is noticeably "floppier", and not just on the B-string. It's also noticeable on the E and A strings. I've set up the two basses almost identically, and they presumably come with the same set of strings.

My question: Is there an inherent reason why this would be the case, all other things being equal?
Click to expand...
I don't see why this would be based on the specs.
BB Series - Specs - Yamaha USA
 
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#10
meursault42 said:
I just purchased two basses: a Yamaha BBP34 and BBP35. While they're obviously very similar, one of the more obvious differences is that the string tension on the 5-string is noticeably "floppier", and not just on the B-string. It's also noticeable on the E and A strings. I've set up the two basses almost identically, and they presumably come with the same set of strings.

My question: Is there an inherent reason why this would be the case, all other things being equal?
Click to expand...

If all things were equal, it would be a mystery why there is a difference, but my suspicion is the neck relief is not equal. It only takes a few thousands difference in the relief at the right “range” to make the string tension feel significantly different.

If one bass has 0.008” neck relief and an identical bass with identical strings has 0.011” neck relief, the difference in feel between the two might be noticeable, but probably not a great deal. The bass with 0.011” will feel some stiffer. The string type/ gauge would dictate how much difference in feel, with lighter round cores probably feeling less different than if both basses had medium hex core strings.

The same two basses, one with neck relief at 0.012” and one with neck relief at 0.015” will probably feel a more different even though the neck relief difference is still only 0.003”. Once again, the strings would affect how much difference there is in the feel.

Once you get more than about 0.015” of relief, the feel starts getting stiff fast. Medium gauge hex core strings on a bass with 0.018” relief are going to start feeling similar to playing an upright bass.

This is all about “feel” and not actual tension. The string tension will be the same when the same type / gauge strings are tuned to the same pitch, but the pressure to push the strings against the frets at the max relief point is different. That applies even if both basses have their strings the same height above the 12th fret, because they won’t be the same height above the frets in other locations on the fretboard if the neck relief is different.
 
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#13
This is an interesting thing. At one point I perceived a looser feeling on my 5 string, E and A like you mentioned. Same scale length and instrument sizing, string type/gauges etc, and also the B of course.

I think the 5-string larger size/shape is one factor in *perceiving* a difference in feel. Another is small differences in instrument set up—in pursuit of string to string balance, the 5th string inevitably affects the overall set up.

I tinkered with small adjustments to individual string gauges on the 5 and the set up as well, to check this more closely—end result was to keep the same string gauges. Going through that recalibrated my perception, I don’t expect the 4 and 5 to be exactly alike, everything seems “even and normal” now, which I attribute to the extra quality time spent on exploring the setup.
 
#14
micguy said:
If the tension is less, either the scale length is shorter, or the strings are a lighter gauge (less linear density). That’s the only 2 possibilities.
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This. Physics tells us that two strings of the same mass, vibrating length, and tuning must be under the same tension. If the tension is different at the same pitch and scale length, the mass must be different, i e. they're not the same string.

This is why I'm always bemused by people talking about a bass having a floppy B string. That same string will be just as floppy on every single bass with the same scale. And you can change strings pretty easily:thumbsup:
 
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#15
Esteban Garcia said:
This. Physics tells us that two strings of the same mass, vibrating length, and tuning must be under the same tension. If the tension is different at the same pitch and scale length, the mass must be different, i e. they're not the same string.

This is why I'm always bemused by people talking about a bass having a floppy B string. That same string will be just as floppy on every single bass with the same scale. And you can change strings pretty easily:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Thanks [also to everyone above], I'm guessing it's mostly a perception thing. It's been a long time since I've played a 5-string bass, and plucking an E-string that's next to a low-B feels much different. Could also be slight differences in setup, i.e. relief, etc. It's a nice sounding bass, it just currently doesn't feel as snappy and immediate under the fingers as the BBP34. I'll continue to fiddle with the setup.
 
#16
meursault42 said:
Thanks [also to everyone above], I'm guessing it's mostly a perception thing. It's been a long time since I've played a 5-string bass, and plucking an E-string that's next to a low-B feels much different. Could also be slight differences in setup, i.e. relief, etc. It's a nice sounding bass, it just currently doesn't feel as snappy and immediate under the fingers as the BBP34. I'll continue to fiddle with the setup.
Click to expand...

Check neck relief. Hold down the E string at 1st & 17th fret and tap the E string against the 8th fret. I bet you find the 4 string has a larger gap off the 8th fret than the 5 string.

Another factor that contributes to how stiff a bass feels to the player’s hands is nut slot depth. This especially affects the feel of a bass when played closer to the nut. The nut slots could possibly be different depths on the two basses.
 
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#18
Tim Skaggs said:
The string tension will be the same when the same type / gauge strings are tuned to the same pitch, but the pressure to push the strings against the frets at the max relief point is different.
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Yep. When I last went bass shopping the sales guy told me he prefers through-body bridge stringing "because of the higher tension", which is obviously not what's really happening. I didn't bother arguing (but I did buy the bass in question).
 
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#19
IMO if someone thinks bass strings are "floppy" they must be hitting/pulling/plucking the strings pretty hard.

I try to conserve my energy and play with low action and a light touch. I don't notice string tension at all.
 
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