Rick Beato on Seal’s “Kiss From A Rose”

#21
I've been a big fan of the "What makes this song..." series. The first one I listened to was "Rosanna" by Toto, it was the first time I ever saw a video that broke down a song by structure and track. I was hooked... of course the next one I watched was Steely Dan ;). I agree that the rants tend to drag a bit, but it is cool to see what the industry is doing with blocking and such. For anyone that is into recording, song arranging, or production - I think his videos are excellent. When I was in art classes in college I remember a teacher once saying, good artists create, great artists steal... These video have lots of great tips, not to mention a chance to really focus on the talent in the individual tracks.
 
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#23
Seal's second album was amazingly, astoundingly good. I've continued to like and follow him and even saw him a couple years ago at Red Rocks with the Colorado Symphony (was good). But he never again matched that album.

A lot of bands have excellent first albums and never recapture the magic again. That's explainable - the first album is more or less a lifetime of work distilled to the best parts of it. Everything after that is whatever they do next.

More interesting to me is the dynamic of the excellent sophomore album. It's a thing that happens. The second Train album is another good example. Good band overall with a nice body of work, but for my money nothing else they ever did was even close to as good as the Drops of Jupiter record.

Anyway, back to Seal. I'll watch this over the weekend. I love these. My wife makes fun of me because she can't understand why anyone would care about the inner workings of a song like Beato does. I'm a pig in slop though, in a parallel universe I made it to become a record producer. This stuff speaks to me.
 
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#24
tothemax said:
I've been a big fan of the "What makes this song..." series. The first one I listened to was "Rosanna" by Toto, it was the first time I ever saw a video that broke down a song by structure and track. I was hooked... of course the next one I watched was Steely Dan ;). I agree that the rants tend to drag a bit, but it is cool to see what the industry is doing with blocking and such. For anyone that is into recording, song arranging, or production - I think his videos are excellent. When I was in art classes in college I remember a teacher once saying, good artists create, great artists steal... These video have lots of great tips, not to mention a chance to really focus on the talent in the individual tracks.
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What comes across to me in those videos is that Beato is first and foremost a lover of music. His approach to those videos are equal parts analysis and admiration, which to me is very captivating.
 
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#26
I liked that song when it was released back then and still do. His analysis is nothing mystical. He does present it as if he was the first one to the discover it like when he talks about the raised 4th Lydian. We should not under-estimate the capacity of humans to appreciate something other than the common chord projections and time signature even if they do not analyze it. Bourdain? Really? - if he starts to go off menu like analyze Indian pop music , then maybe. That audience by the way do not make a big deal about odd time signatures (9/8s 11/16 7/8) or flatted seconds or raised 4ths. It's part of their musical vernacular.

There are still good pop music written today contrary to what he said. Sarah Bareilles , Norah Junes - very approachable tunes that sound simple but very clever chord and modal changes.

But Seal is definitely a genius and underrated. Did he arrange the orchestra on that song as well? The 90's had really good clever music even if they did not make it to the charts. I miss reading the Melody Maker.

One thing worth mentioning is that this song became popular because it was remixed for the sound track of Batman Forever.

This is what I could find.

 
#29
FretFree said:
Does anyone else remember hearing the controversy surrounding this album when it came out? I want to say first that the album sounds amazing.

However, I feel like some musicians involved in the sessions made comments that they came in to the studio, "worked on getting a sound", and were then told that they were done... only to hear "their sounds" playing things on the record they didn't play.

I really don't remember details.... maybe this is more of a conspiracy theory?
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I never heard anything about a controversy. I remember reading that a percussionist (I think it was Paulinho da Costa, who played on the first album) was surprised when he went into the studio, played a bit and was told, “Okay, that’s good - we have what we need”. But that’s pretty much par for the course with a Trevor Horn production I think. Lots of sampling and manipulation of source sounds.
 
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#31
cnltb said:
I saw it but am just not interested in listening to him talk for over 30 minutes.
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Beato does put out some videos that literally are just him talking about something (his rants about video blockers are tedious) and I tend to avoid those as well, but I don't see the What Makes This Song Great series as him talking for 30 minutes. He talks, he plays parts of the song, he reviews chord changes, instrumentation, and arrangements. In this case he included an interview with the artist. I came away with a new appreciation for this song and for Seal. That's what education is all about.

Beato's analysis of Comfortably Numb, which preceded the Kiss From a Rose video, is fantastic.
 
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#33
Wilmingtonian said:
I’ve watched a good many of Beato’s videos and like them all (except for his tantrums about ‘blockers’) but wish he’d come up with another name for the “what makes this song great” ones because while he breaks them down thoroughly he always seems to not be able to live up to that title; there is only so much I can get out of knowing what chords and keys were used.
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I agree with this. Occasionally he just kind of deconstructs the song expressing his own appreciation for them. I like it when he brings up how chord changes and melodies are analogous to other famous tunes or songs.

The ones where he discusses the musical choices the artists make are pretty cool. In that way, you see how in many cases the artist or musician holding back, using empty space, or self-editing really adds up to the greatness.
 
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#34
RichardW said:
Beato does put out some videos that literally are just him talking about something (his rants about video blockers are tedious) and I tend to avoid those as well, but I don't see the What Makes This Song Great series as him talking for 30 minutes. He talks, he plays parts of the song, he reviews chord changes, instrumentation, and arrangements. In this case he included an interview with the artist. I came away with a new appreciation for this song and for Seal. That's what education is all about.

Beato's analysis of Comfortably Numb, which preceded the Kiss From a Rose video, is fantastic.
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I think he appears quite knowledgeable enthused about his chosen topics and quite entertaining at times. I enjoy watching his videos...but NOT for 30 minutes. :)
 
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#35
logdrum said:
I liked that song when it was released back then and still do. His analysis is nothing mystical. He does present it as if he was the first one to the discover it like when he talks about the raised 4th Lydian. We should not under-estimate the capacity of humans to appreciate something other than the common chord projections and time signature even if they do not analyze it. Bourdain? Really? - if he starts to go off menu like analyze Indian pop music , then maybe. That audience by the way do not make a big deal about odd time signatures (9/8s 11/16 7/8) or flatted seconds or raised 4ths. It's part of their musical vernacular.

There are still good pop music written today contrary to what he said. Sarah Bareilles , Norah Junes - very approachable tunes that sound simple but very clever chord and modal changes.

But Seal is definitely a genius and underrated. Did he arrange the orchestra on that song as well? The 90's had really good clever music even if they did not make it to the charts. I miss reading the Melody Maker.

One thing worth mentioning is that this song became popular because it was remixed for the sound track of Batman Forever.

This is what I could find.

Click to expand...

The string arrangements on the album are credited to Anne Dudley (who has probably done more arranging for Trevor Horn than anyone else has) and Wil Malone. To my knowledge KFAR was not remixed for Batman. It was, however, re-released as a single after its inclusion in the film’s soundtrack.
 
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#36
bass12 said:
I never heard anything about a controversy. I remember reading that a percussionist (I think it was Paulinho da Costa, who played on the first album) was surprised when he went into the studio, played a bit and was told, “Okay, that’s good - we have what we need”. But that’s pretty much par for the course with a Trevor Horn production I think. Lots of sampling and manipulation of source sounds.
Click to expand...
I played a theater gig in the early 90s with a guy who had been on the session for Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom" album. He is credited (Paul Bissell, percussion) but he said that there was nothing on the final cut that sounded anything like what he recorded. There are some interesting reverse reverb tubular bell sounding things on the first track that he _thinks_ he might have done.

So that seems to happen.
 
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#37
Altitude said:
More interesting to me is the dynamic of the excellent sophomore album. It's a thing that happens. The second Train album is another good example. Good band overall with a nice body of work, but for my money nothing else they ever did was even close to as good as the Drops of Jupiter record.
Click to expand...

Oasis, Counting Crows, and Coldplay have this too. First two albums are amazing, and then the tone shifts. The following albums have good tracks and excellent production, but the angst of youth is replaced by the disappointment of mega-stardom.
 
#38
I feel like the shine on Beato is wearing off for me to an extent.

The blocker videos, the grumpy old man “this is why music is bad now” videos.

I legit laugh out loud whenever I see his “boomers hate pop” video come across my feed. Comically unaware. The Beatles were pop, and rock as a whole was the pop alternative to Jazz, which was the dominant music genre when Rock was first starting out. Boomers have always been into pop.

He also seems to tell conflicting stories about his music background. He tells a story in one video about how he started out on guitar. Then in another bass centric video he’s like “bass was my first instrument.”
 
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#39
MaxOctane said:
Oasis, Counting Crows, and Coldplay have this too. First two albums are amazing, and then the tone shifts. The following albums have good tracks and excellent production, but the angst of youth is replaced by the disappointment of mega-stardom.
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Coldplay - yes. "A Rush of Blood to the Head" is their best record by far.

I personally liked "August and Everything After" better than "Recovering the Satellites" but the second one might have had more hits.
 
#40
bass12 said:
Yeah, I wish the performers were listed by track in that (and the first) album.
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According to AllMusic, the guest artists on Seal's 2nd album are Jeff Beck, Wendy Melvoin, Joni Mitchell (vocals on "If I Could"), Pino, and William Orbit. Seal [1994] - Seal | Credits | AllMusic
logdrum said:
Did he arrange the orchestra on that song as well?
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Most likely (although I'll have to check the credits on the CD when I get home) the strings were arranged by Anne Dudley, who worked with Trevor Horn in the Art of Noise.

EDIT: Wikipedia says Anne Dudley arranged the strings, but I'll double-check that.
 
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