Set-up question (new strings)

[bassbourne]

WOW! I can't see how you would get string buzz with settings that high That's 3 times the relief I normally set and almost twice the string height. I'm out of ideas.

Haha wow. I actually thought it was quite low. Low in comparison to a lot of the other instruments I own or have owned anyway. That is very strange then. I suppose I'll switch back to the medium rounds then as I didn't have a problem with those even though the action and relief were lower/less than they are now.

 

[bassbourne]

WOW! I can't see how you would get string buzz with settings that high That's 3 times the relief I normally set and almost twice the string height. I'm out of ideas.

Thanks anyway by the way!

 

[JKos]

To echo @Turnaround ,
That's a LOT of relief and string height. You should get the relief under control then reassess string height.

- John

 

[bassbourne]

To echo @Turnaround ,
That's a LOT of relief and string height. You should get the relief under control then reassess string height.

- John

Thanks.

This is a big surprise to me. I think I'd been using this whole credit card rule thing and assumed the relief is set right if a credit card just about fits under the 7th fret when pressing the first and last fret. But yeah, I just checked the Fender manual specs and it does suggest about a 3rd of what mine is set at. So I guess I've been playing with a huge amount of relief and high action for years without realising.

The funny thing is, the different luthiers I've been to over the years (some very experienced) never said anything about it. One even said my action is already very low. And this was a bass that was set up with more relief and higher action than the one pictured above. So yeah, I always assumed that's the way it is. Gonna have to rethink everything haha.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

The “no feeler gauge” rule of thumb for relief is a business card not a credit card. Get that and the action sorted and you be able to play super fast because you’ll only be working 1/3 as hard.

 

[bassbourne]

The “no feeler gauge” rule of thumb for relief is a business card not a credit card. Get that and the action sorted and you be able to play super fast because you’ll only be working 1/3 as hard.

Haha, that would explain why my hands get tired after a while. And to think I've been playing for over 20 years... Still, better late than never!

I gotta say though, this is where I got my info from:



At around 7:20 he mentions that you want roughly a credit-card amount of relief. I'm guessing he meant business card. But yeah, his fault, not mine. Haha.

 

[Turnaround]

I disagree with Scott on a number of things he posts. But He's entitled to his opinion even when he's wrong.

And I recommend that you always measure the relief at the 7th fret while fretting at the 1st and the 17th, NOT 1st and last. The reason is that a ski jump will really mess with those measurements if you happen to have one. And since a ski jump cannot be overcome with any adjustment of the truss rod, you should take it out of the equation while making truss rod adjustments.

 

[murph7489]

New strings that are different..set up, where do you start with a set up, Truss Rod then work your way through the set up once you get the truss rod / neck relief where it needs to be..check your string height after that..then check for buzzing, if you still get it..you are probably looking at a fret scenario..hard to say without having the bass on the bench...but I start with the relief first.. get that right, then you go through and eliminate things as you go..

 

[murph7489]

The “no feeler gauge” rule of thumb for relief is a business card not a credit card. Get that and the action sorted and you be able to play super fast because you’ll only be working 1/3 as hard.

yeah and the other rule of thumb is buy a set of feeler gauges, they are cheap as all get out at the autozone or where ever you have an autoparts store..you can use them for relief and the nut height.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

yeah and the other rule of thumb is buy a set of feeler gauges, they are cheap as all get out at the autozone or where ever you have an autoparts store..you can use them for relief and the nut height.

I don’t disagree. I have several sets. The OP sounds like he doesn’t and was using a less then ideal reference for relief. Just trying to help with something likely to be around the house all handy like.

 

[bassbourne]

I've put the medium rounds back on for now and the buzzing is gone, but I'm going to do a proper set up anyway starting with the relief. Just going to buy a couple of tools first to make sure I can get everything done in one go.

In the meantime I have a string question. Can anyone recommend a good set of fairly low tension medium flats? By low tension I mean both feel wise (not too stiff for the plucking hand) and also low tension in terms of not putting too much tension on the neck. I'm thinking if I stick to the same gauge as these medium rounds (45-105) then there may not be an issue with fret buzz when I change strings. I heard the Dunlop medium flats are fairly low tension. Are there any others?

Thanks!

 

[ChrisBowsman]

Just curious, how do the action and relief measure with the rounds?

I used to be a high action/lots of relief guy. Currently running sub-2mm on the E, around 1.5mm on the G, just enough relief to say there is some. Back in the day I would've made fun of me for saying this, but being able to play effortlessly is pretty awesome.

 

[JW56789]

This is all gone sideways.

For relief, invest in a set of feeler gauges you can get at any auto parts store.

1) Tune the bass

2) Put a capo on the first fret

3) Hold the E-string down with your right hand at the 17th, then

4) Measure the clearance over the 12th fret (around .012" of an inch is a good target)

Then use your steel rule for these string heights:

After you've gotten the relief done, THEN set your string heights over the last fret of the fingerboard, following the curve / radius of the fingerboard. A good general target is 5/64" for the E-string letting down just a bit across all 4 strings to 4/64" on the G-string.

You'll want to do this anytime you go to a different gage or style of string. And when you do go to something different, adjust your string lengths on the saddles so you play in tune up the neck.

You'll have to do the English-Metric conversions for those measurements.

From the pictures, the strings were very high, if I'm looking at them correctly.

IF you DON'T know how to do this, take it to a QUALIFIED guitar technician. Wherever you are, find out who the real players, the guys that make their living playing, take their guitars. It should be someone who has their own standalone business, or possibly partnered with a good music store. He may be a warranty station for brands of guitars. DON'T waste your time with somebody's 'brother in law that works on guitars' or some kid at Guitar Center. Find a real guitar tech, pay what he asks and get this straight. If there's some other problem at work here (entirely possible), he'll find it.

Here's a great workaround from Fender themselves, and a lot of this can apply to a lot of different basses:

How do I set up my bass guitar properly?

I'm not one of those guys to measure it with a credit card or guitar picks. I want numbers I can repeat from bass to bass: Then I know where I'm at.

 

[JW56789]

I did make a goof: As Richard points out, check your relief at the 7th fret. Sorry for the typo.

 

[bassbourne]

This is all gone sideways.

For relief, invest in a set of feeler gauges you can get at any auto parts store.

1) Tune the bass

2) Put a capo on the first fret

3) Hold the E-string down with your right hand at the 17th, then

4) Measure the clearance over the 12th fret (around .012" of an inch is a good target)

Then use your steel rule for these string heights:

After you've gotten the relief done, THEN set your string heights over the last fret of the fingerboard, following the curve / radius of the fingerboard. A good general target is 5/64" for the E-string letting down just a bit across all 4 strings to 4/64" on the G-string.

You'll want to do this anytime you go to a different gage or style of string. And when you do go to something different, adjust your string lengths on the saddles so you play in tune up the neck.

You'll have to do the English-Metric conversions for those measurements.

From the pictures, the strings were very high, if I'm looking at them correctly.

IF you DON'T know how to do this, take it to a QUALIFIED guitar technician. Wherever you are, find out who the real players, the guys that make their living playing, take their guitars. It should be someone who has their own standalone business, or possibly partnered with a good music store. He may be a warranty station for brands of guitars. DON'T waste your time with somebody's 'brother in law that works on guitars' or some kid at Guitar Center. Find a real guitar tech, pay what he asks and get this straight. If there's some other problem at work here (entirely possible), he'll find it.

Here's a great workaround from Fender themselves, and a lot of this can apply to a lot of different basses:

How do I set up my bass guitar properly?

I'm not one of those guys to measure it with a credit card or guitar picks. I want numbers I can repeat from bass to bass: Then I know where I'm at.

Thanks for the instructions! Will give this a go once I've got a few more tools.

 

[bassbourne]

Just curious, how do the action and relief measure with the rounds?

I used to be a high action/lots of relief guy. Currently running sub-2mm on the E, around 1.5mm on the G, just enough relief to say there is some. Back in the day I would've made fun of me for saying this, but being able to play effortlessly is pretty awesome.

I tightened the truss rod a bit, so It's closer to 0.5 mm now, but the string height is still around 3mm. Yet to lower that. But yeah, no buzzing. So I'm not sure why the D string from the flats was giving me so much grief. I know it's a lighter gauge, but so are the E and A strings and they were fine. And raising the action didn't seem to be improving it. Shame as I really want flats on this bass. Might try my old set of custom light chromes (40, 60, 80, 100) just to see if it was the string.

 

[CallMeAl]

In the meantime I have a string question. Can anyone recommend a good set of fairly low tension medium flats? By low tension I mean both feel wise (not too stiff for the plucking hand) and also low tension in terms of not putting too much tension on the neck. I'm thinking if I stick to the same gauge as these medium rounds (45-105) then there may not be an issue with fret buzz when I change strings. I heard the Dunlop medium flats are fairly low tension. Are there any others?

Paging @michael_t ! He always sets me straight on strings, especially when tension and stiffness is involved.

I've put the medium rounds back on for now and the buzzing is gone, but I'm going to do a proper set up anyway starting with the relief. Just going to buy a couple of tools first to make sure I can get everything done in one go.

I’ve got that exact set of rounds on, and I’ve got that exact set of flats in the mail. I was hoping you’d get this sorted to hear your review of the new flats, so it’s a bummer for both of us! Lol

good luck on your flats quest!

 

[bassbourne]

Paging @michael_t ! He always sets me straight on strings, especially when tension and stiffness is involved.


I’ve got that exact set of rounds on, and I’ve got that exact set of flats in the mail. I was hoping you’d get this sorted to hear your review of the new flats, so it’s a bummer for both of us! Lol

good luck on your flats quest!

Thanks for the page!

Haha that is a bummer. Although, I got enough playing in before changing them back to get a good feel of them and they felt/sounded good to me. They felt balanced, despite the 0.45 G string (I'm used to custom chromes which are 40,60,80,100). A bit clanky and zingy when fresh out of the pack, but I've heard that passes once you wear them in a bit (as with most strings). For the price they're great and I wouldn't have changed them if it weren't for the fret buzz. Missing them already haha.

Let me know what you think once you get them!

 

[bassbourne]

Little update for those interested...

I put the flats back on. Buzzing still there if I play hard, but I've adjusted my playing a bit and it's not really an issue any more. I think I got used to playing really hard having always had high action. I'd get pain in my fingers by the end of a session and just assumed I was playing too much. But now that I've got the neck almost straight and the lighter gauge strings back on, it's encouraging me to play softer and more dynamic which I'm sure is doing my hands a big favour.

If the buzzing prohibits me from digging it at all, I'll take it to a luthier, but so far it's sounding great and I'm able to play fine.

Great strings by the way. Used to be a rounds only guy, but don't miss the rounds at all. Flats forever on this particular bass.

 

[CallMeAl]

Little update for those interested...

I put the flats back on. Buzzing still there if I play hard, but I've adjusted my playing a bit and it's not really an issue any more. I think I got used to playing really hard having always had high action. I'd get pain in my fingers by the end of a session and just assumed I was playing too much. But now that I've got the neck almost straight and the lighter gauge strings back on, it's encouraging me to play softer and more dynamic which I'm sure is doing my hands a big favour.

If the buzzing prohibits me from digging it at all, I'll take it to a luthier, but so far it's sounding great and I'm able to play fine.

Great strings by the way. Used to be a rounds only guy, but don't miss the rounds at all. Flats forever on this particular bass.

Good news!

Mine came very early (surprise!) and I got them strung up. I barely had to do a setup change between the 2 sets; no neck adjustment needed, just minor tweaks to saddles and intonation.

And I love these strings! They feel great, both the finger feel and the stiffness. I heard so many people tell me they’re very clanky, give em a month... but I think they sound fantastic! Maybe they meant clanky compared to other flats, and I’m just used to fresh rounds

anyway, enjoy!