Simple method for a good direct bass tone when doing your own sound?

[poochiecheeks]

What's your preferred go to method for a foolproof bass tone going direct with IEMs/monitors into a PA? I've been trying all sorts of setups for my signal chain and it's always either too complicated or seems like it's lacking in some respect. In this group (cover band) we do our own sound so there is no sound person out front and little to no feedback on how the bass specifically sounds or fits in the band aside from "too much bass" or "I can't hear the bass". I've tried a bunch of different sansamps, cab sims, a tube di once- it'll sound good to me in my in ears with nothing but the drums and my bass, hearing guitars and vocals through the pa in the room, but I have no idea how it's working with the rest of the band.

What would you use for a direct sound when you can't hear how your bass sounds in the room out front and you're basically guessing on what kind of EQ or adjustments to make? Straight into a DI? Multi effects unit? Cab sim pedal? Sansamp? HPF/LPF? Give the guitarist an octave pedal and quit the band? How much more money do I have to spend on crap until it sounds good?

IEMs and no amps are nice and convenient but I wish I could bring one bass, plug it straight into an 800RB set flat on top of a 215 and not have to think about tone or EQ or anything and just play the damn music. Please explain how I am overthinking this whole going direct thing and what you would do in this situation to make the bass sound good and not have to worry about how I sound out front and with the rest of the band.
Thanks

 

[kleinenenten]

So you want an 800RB direct to the board? My thoughts for a simple solution - get a GK Plex. It has all sorts of GK amps simulations, though I have no experience with it. (If I had cabsims, I'd have gotten one years ago.) Then, run your chain through some sort of DI/Cabsim. My current favorite (not that I'm an expert AT ALL) is the Digitech CabDryVR. I was able to quickly dial in a very usable tone for the PA system I use. (I use bass cab #6 - the "Vintage Fridge" setting. Very simple, sounds good, and just works so far.) Again, I'm certainly not an expert, but if you're looking for simple, I can't see it getting much simpler than that.

 

[DonaldR]

It looks like your mixer don't have enough EQ bands.
If you cannot get a good sound out a Sansamp then you need some training on how to create a live mix. There'a very large pourcentage of live sound that are only using a DI, pre-eq/pre-everything, and they sound good. Maybe just use what you already have and add an MXR 10-band eq pedal?

 

[Geri O]

It really depends on your expectations.

I can get what I consider to be a great tone in my IEMs with only a tube DI such as a Khan VTDI straight to the mixing console. Very simple. And both my basses work well with this setup (Jazz-style, Stingray).

Thankful that my needs are simple.

 

[Wasnex]

If the bass sounds good in your IEMs, you have done what you need to do. Whoever runs the mixer is responsible for making sure you sound good in the house....someone has to run the freakin mixer.

As an audio tech, I normally prefer the bass plugged into a good DI, so the signal is tapped off before the amp. This setup gives the audio tech an unprocessed signal that is often easier to work with. Also, if you adjust your amp during the show, the resulting changes do not impact the signal going to the mixer.

If you are not using an amp I can see a good argument to use something like a Preamp/DI with the signal set to post EQ. This gives you the ability to dial in how your bass sounds in the IEMs. However, you really need to try and get your sound dialed in at the earliest possible opportunity, and then lock it down for the duration of the show. The reason is because any tweaks you make during the show will impact all of the mixes with bass. For example if you turn up, it may put too much bass in everyone else's monitor mixes, meaning they will need to turn up to compensate....we call this a volume war.

The way to avoid starting a volume war is to ask whoever is running sound to bump your level in your IEM mix. Doing it this way gives you the extra level you need without impacting other mixes.

 

[Wasnex]

If you want a baked in tone like a 800RB pushing a 215, you might consider running some sort of SIM or modeler.

The Two Notes CAB M+ looks pretty cool, but it is recently discontinued.




I believe the current option is the Two Notes Opus, but I don't see any similar quality bass demos.

 

[pfschim]

sounds like the OP feels like he does get a good sound in his IEM's, but is not sure how it works in the full band mix in the house ?

How about using a wireless connect for your bass and go out front during soundcheck and hear the full mix for yourself ?

Keep in mind that even if you had your "800RB set flat on a 2x15 cab", you would still not hear what it sounded like out front unless you went out front.

Just sayin'

 

[johnh89]

I use a Triton Bighead DI , straight into the mixer . As a starting point , I cut a little treble on the bass (Yamaha BB734a) and a little boost on the mids . EQ on the mixer stays flat . It has worked in any situation for me . It won't be perfect necessarily , but will be in the ballpark . The advantage of the active bass is that I can adjust as necessary . I love simple .....

 

[nono]

sounds like the OP feels like he does get a good sound in his IEM's, but is not sure how it works in the full band mix in the house ?

How about using a wireless connect for your bass and go out front during soundcheck and hear the full mix for yourself ?

This! Either a wireless unit or a very long cable, but the wireless is easier. Plus you can go to the bar and grab a beer while playing (semi serious about that, but you can move around to check your sound more or less anywhere, not just at the board).

 

[RattleSnack]

Easy to make bass guitar sounding good if whole band mix is good, so that's where to start.

As a sound guy, for indoors gigs, I go hard with carving - lots of HPF on everything, as high as I can go without wrecking instrument sound. Except HPF, I use very little EQ, except on guitar. I add my bass guitar last, with a little bit of EQ on the console and it just fall into place.

As bass guitar player, all I need is to give healthy signal. For my covers band, I just plug bass guitar direct into mixer. My setup as bass guitar player is either bass -> amp (with minimum volume needed to hear myself on stage) -> pre EQ DI to mixer, or bass -> mixer -> IEM.

IMO people here vastly over-produce their setup (preamps, HPF, cab sims, compression). You have all those tools at the mixer console AND objective point of view, looking at band as whole to apply them where necessary. Nothing worse for sound man than getting overly produced signal that you can't fit where you want to.

 

[Groove Doctor]

How about using a wireless connect for your bass and go out front during soundcheck and hear the full mix for yourself ?

This! Either a wireless unit or a very long cable, but the wireless is easier.
…. you can move around to check your sound more or less anywhere, not just at the board.

No short cuts. Someone has to physically go out front and listen. The newer mixers with Bluetooth iPad controllers are much better suited to what you need in this context of mixing your own PA. Set the PA levels/ EQ properly during the sound check and it should be fine all night with just an occasional walk out front to check.

 

[el murdoque]

For my personal simple and direct setup, all I need is four pedals.

The signal chain is:
-Cali76 CB Compressor Pedal
-Broughton RFE
-Strymon BigSky
-Noble Preamp DI.

The EQ duties are split between the Broughton and the Noble. The Noble adds oomph and glitter, while the parametric mids of the RFE can counter the bathtub. Also the resonant filters are very good to act as a cab sim.
The Cali is there to do mainly peak limiting, while the BigSky adds just a touch of plate reverb that makes the bass sound a lot more lively and three dimensional through IEM.

This works perfectly out of the box and FOH people love it. I often ask what they did during sound/line check and more often than not, they basically set the gain and are happy with the rest.

 

[Scotty4string]

If the bass sounds good in your IEMs, you have done what you need to do. Whoever runs the mixer is responsible for making sure you sound good in the house....someone has to run the freakin mixer.

As an audio tech, I normally prefer the bass plugged into a good DI, so the signal is tapped off before the amp. This setup gives the audio tech an unprocessed signal that is often easier to work with. Also, if you adjust your amp during the show, the resulting changes do not impact the signal going to the mixer.

If you are not using an amp I can see a good argument to use something like a Preamp/DI with the signal set to post EQ. This gives you the ability to dial in how your bass sounds in the IEMs. However, you really need to try and get your sound dialed in at the earliest possible opportunity, and then lock it down for the duration of the show. The reason is because any tweaks you make during the show will impact all of the mixes with bass. For example if you turn up, it may put too much bass in everyone else's monitor mixes, meaning they will need to turn up to compensate....we call this a volume war.

The way to avoid starting a volume war is to ask whoever is running sound to bump your level in your IEM mix. Doing it this way gives you the extra level you need without impacting other mixes.

This x1000. You can do whatever you want to make your bass sound good to you. In the end, it can all be be destroyed or improved be the sound man. Bass guitar is so dependent on the room that trying to get your sound out front is nearly impossible. I love the sound of my svt miced . However, for big shows with a sound company, I just use a di and let the sound man do his thing. Good or bad, that’s the best way. I’ve found that on big stages with a huge PA, what I want to hear is way different than what is needed out front. Small bar gigs are different.

 

[BelmontBiker]

Bass into tuner, tuner into Shiftline MKIII with eq set flat and a little bit of gain. Sound guy has minimal tweaking to do because I’m not throwing him a big curve ball. I get suckered into wanting shiny fancy sounding things but keep coming back to simple is better. It’s why I love lurking near the back of the stage, not the front ;-).

 

[tb-player]

+1 for keep it simple… and wireless.

If you don’t have a soundman, eq for your IEMs then get out there and eq for the house. Of course, as soon as warm bodies show up, it’ll need to be remixed. So yeah… maybe hire a sound guy.

 

[The Ruiner]

What's your preferred go to method for a foolproof bass tone going direct with IEMs/monitors into a PA? I've been trying all sorts of setups for my signal chain and it's always either too complicated or seems like it's lacking in some respect. In this group (cover band) we do our own sound so there is no sound person out front and little to no feedback on how the bass specifically sounds or fits in the band aside from "too much bass" or "I can't hear the bass". I've tried a bunch of different sansamps, cab sims, a tube di once- it'll sound good to me in my in ears with nothing but the drums and my bass, hearing guitars and vocals through the pa in the room, but I have no idea how it's working with the rest of the band.

What would you use for a direct sound when you can't hear how your bass sounds in the room out front and you're basically guessing on what kind of EQ or adjustments to make? Straight into a DI? Multi effects unit? Cab sim pedal? Sansamp? HPF/LPF? Give the guitarist an octave pedal and quit the band? How much more money do I have to spend on crap until it sounds good?

IEMs and no amps are nice and convenient but I wish I could bring one bass, plug it straight into an 800RB set flat on top of a 215 and not have to think about tone or EQ or anything and just play the damn music. Please explain how I am overthinking this whole going direct thing and what you would do in this situation to make the bass sound good and not have to worry about how I sound out front and with the rest of the band.
Thanks

Great points here. I'll add my 2 cents, having been the bassist who is also responsible for the foh mix at times. You may have done some or all of these things, but if not, here are some things I found helpful:

You really want to know what it sounds like out there, so:

Consider using a wireless set, so you can wander into the audience area and hear what front of house actually sounds like. Even if you don't use them for performance, get a cheap set for this purpose alone.

Consider using a looper so you can play a soundcheck line that the band can play along with, and hear it looping without having to worry about timing issues. The further you get from the stage, the more of a lag there will be between what you're playing and what you're hearing. So it's hard to sound check in-time with the band if you go too far out. So loop a line, let them play with it, and go wander.

A high pass filter and judicious compression solve a lot of problems with the bass mix.

Best of luck!

 

[PotsdamBass8]

The next time you’re at a local show and you like the live mix and bass sound, ask the person running sound how much it would cost for them to come to a show or two and run your sound and show you some basics for getting a good bass sound. With you having your own sound system and the person not having to set anything up, it shouldn’t cost too much. Take notes and mark down levels as a starting point for all shows going forward. If you want to get a DI with features and modeling, that would be great to get beforehand. Plug it into a studio monitor, IEMs, or your sound system when you have some free time and tweak it to where you are happy. Then the sound person can show you what they’d do to make it fit the mix better, and there’s your starting point/fallback point for future gigs.

Having them come to multiple shows in different venues would be most helpful, because then you can see the range of what else needs to be adjusted for different venues.

 

[musicman7722]

I do a fair number of walk on for bands that want their systems optimized from a FOH position and then saved to their mixer.

 

[musicman7722]

When I am doing FOH I automatically the start the bass guitar with the HPF just over 100hz. Once I feel I have the mids and highs where they will cut through I have the drums and bass play together and slowly add the bass lower than 100hz until I tend to lose it due to the drums. Then I back off the hpf until the bass can be heard. If you have a digital mixer and are mixing from stage you could save this a s a preset for the channel.

 

[DanAdams]

I believe in a 'less is more' approach.
It seems like players often care more about chasing a perfect tone than an audience being able to actually hear any notes being played.
In a live situation prioritize clarity. Wait until the studio to get fancy with the knobs.
I try to get my part to sound good 'bone dry' before making embellishments.
So my foolproof method is: Volume up> Tone up> DI.
If that doesn't create a decent starting point, the problem may be elsewhere.