Slap not the same live.

[jdh3000]

I used to never been good at slapping, but always liked it.

A while back I decided to spend more time on my technique.
I have some decent riffs to work off of and would like to inject them in certain songs live just to add a bit to some funk style tunes and taking a solo.

In my practice room, without really doing much to the eq, I get a good solid slap/pop going. I can even play along with the songs(our actual recordings) I want to use it in and it sounds good.

Problem is when do it live it really doesn't sound right. I run over some licks during sound check and it doesn't sound right. It's difficult to describe, the slap pop is there just nothing rings out. More of a thud like sound.

I've got some patches on my zoom pedal that I vamp up the eq and should be getting a good tone. I have my strap to fixed to pull it up when I want it.

I know "bedroom sound" doesn't equate live sound, but I should still be able to approximate my slap sound live.

Has anyone else run into this. Should I keep experimenting with my eq for live?

Thanks!

 

[jdh3000]

This is just my amp sound on stage even without going through the mains.

I know rooms affect sound and I've always worked to deal with it... just can't figure what more I need to do for slap.

 

[Lagado]

It sounds like you are muting it in some way. Does the bass remain at the same height sitting and standing? I like it a little higher when sitting for slap stuff, problem is when I stand it's a bit lower. That makes a difference, the angles have changed. If I have something tricky to play, I practise it cleanly up to 10BPM over the original tempo, because everything is a bit more difficult live.

 

[Nashrakh]

What are your setups for both practice and gigs? I've had the experience that some heavily colored cabinets can eat a lot of your top end, so it's no wonder you won't be getting more of a thud than anything if that's the case. Or do you use the same amplification in both settings?

 

[jdh3000]

It sounds like you are muting it in some way. Does the bass remain at the same height sitting and standing? I like it a little higher when sitting for slap stuff, problem is when I stand it's a bit lower. That makes a difference, the angles have changed. If I have something tricky to play, I practise it cleanly up to 10BPM over the original tempo, because everything is a bit more difficult live.

Yes I raise it for live, I put another straplock higher so I could change quickly... but I still could be unconsciously muting the strings, just not paying as much attention to detail as when I'll try raising the tempo in practice.

Thank you!

 

[jdh3000]

What are your setups for both practice and gigs? I've had the experience that some heavily colored cabinets can eat a lot of your top end, so it's no wonder you won't be getting more of a thud than anything if that's the case. Or do you use the same amplification in both settings?

What are your setups for both practice and gigs? I've had the experience that some heavily colored cabinets can eat a lot of your top end, so it's no wonder you won't be getting more of a thud than anything if that's the case. Or do you use the same amplification in both settings?

I'm practicing on a 4/10 cab like what I play live. My normal tone sounds equal, but with slap I may be need to focus on that more. I keep my live rig in the trailer but I'll bring it home and work with it to see if there's any difference.

Thanks!

 

[JRA]

Slap not the same live.


nothing is!



good luck with your slapping!

 

[Wasnex]

I used to never been good at slapping, but always liked it.

A while back I decided to spend more time on my technique.
I have some decent riffs to work off of and would like to inject them in certain songs live just to add a bit to some funk style tunes and taking a solo.

In my practice room, without really doing much to the eq, I get a good solid slap/pop going. I can even play along with the songs(our actual recordings) I want to use it in and it sounds good.

Problem is when do it live it really doesn't sound right. I run over some licks during sound check and it doesn't sound right. It's difficult to describe, the slap pop is there just nothing rings out. More of a thud like sound.

I've got some patches on my zoom pedal that I vamp up the eq and should be getting a good tone. I have my strap to fixed to pull it up when I want it.

I know "bedroom sound" doesn't equate live sound, but I should still be able to approximate my slap sound live.

Has anyone else run into this. Should I keep experimenting with my eq for live?

Thanks!

IMHO the most likely problem is either the speaker you use is not capable of producing the desired sound, or you are not aiming the speaker so the sound is traveling directly to your ears.

Low frequencies are omni-directional. As the frequency increases, the big drivers in your cabinet start to develop directional control over the sound. Eventually as the frequency continues to rise, the sound will come out in a focused cone shaped beam directly in front of the driver, and the beam will become progressively narrower as the frequency goes higher.

So if you set up your speaker flat on the floor, you hear the omni-directional lows coming straight from your cab, but the mids and highs shoot by below your ears. The only way you will hear the mids and highs is if the hit a reflective surface and then bounce back to your ears.

In order to hear the full bandwidth of you cab, at the very least tilt it back to aim at your head. I typically like to elevate my cabs as well as this puts a bit of a dip in the lows mids that I like. IMHO elevating the cab tends to make the sound less boomy.

You might also try using light compression when you slap. Many basses require a volume change so the slap level will match with finger-style level. Use the compressor for the volume change and also to even out the sound a bit.

You do need to shop around and find a compressor that provides the type of response you want. Some compressors only have a couple of knobs (gain and level) so the parameters are not adjustable. Other compressors give you full control over all compressor parameters. Although they are more confusing to use, you can tailor the sound more to your liking (providing you can figure them out). Some people really don't like to tweak, so be honest with yourself about how many control you will be comfortable with and they try to find a compressor that gives the sound you want.

 

[jdh3000]

IMHO the most likely problem is either the speaker you use is not capable of producing the desired sound, or you are not aiming the speaker so the sound is traveling directly to your ears.

Low frequencies are omni-directional. As the frequency increases, the big drivers in your cabinet start to develop directional control over the sound. Eventually as the frequency continues to rise, the sound will come out in a focused cone shaped beam directly in front of the driver, and the beam will become progressively narrower as the frequency goes higher.

So if you set up your speaker flat on the floor, you hear the omni-directional lows coming straight from your cab, but the mids and highs shoot by below your ears. The only way you will hear the mids and highs is if the hit a reflective surface and then bounce back to your ears.

In order to hear the full bandwidth of you cab, at the very least tilt it back to aim at your head. I typically like to elevate my cabs as well as this puts a bit of a dip in the lows mids that I like. IMHO elevating the cab tends to make the sound less boomy.

You might also try using light compression when you slap. Many basses require a volume change so the slap level will match with finger-style level. Use the compressor for the volume change and also to even out the sound a bit.

You do need to shop around and find a compressor that provides the type of response you want. Some compressors only have a couple of knobs (gain and level) so the parameters are not adjustable. Other compressors give you full control over all compressor parameters. Although they are more confusing to use, you can tailor the sound more to your liking (providing you can figure them out). Some people really don't like to tweak, so be honest with yourself about how many control you will be comfortable with and they try to find a compressor that gives the sound you want.

That seems like what may be going on. My speaker is down below waist level. I will try some tilt.

I'm using some compression in my zoom ms60 right now for that but was going to get something else if I started incorporating enough slap to justify it. I have a keeley bassist but I'm using it for something else with my regular style. I was going to try the MXR M87 again, I had tried it before, seems like it might work well for slap.

Thank you!

 

[jdh3000]

Slap not the same live.


nothing is!



good luck with your slapping!

That's no lie, it's just that over the years my mind and ear have started compensating for the difference until I don't notice it much anymore.


I'm going to have to get used to slap sound in the same way.

I was thinking it was one area that I liked and didn't know why I didn't pursue it more than I before. It's a lot of fun though!

Thanks!

 

[JRA]

I was thinking it was one area that I liked and didn't know why I didn't pursue it more than I before. It's a lot of fun though!

 

[jkazam]

Slap can get lost in the mix. I use a compressor with a touch of a volume boost to make up for it.

 

[Ewo]

I think I understand the problem you're experiencing...maybe...

At home, practicing, you prolly don't need much top end to have a pleasing pop tone. On the bandstand, it might be that other high frequency sources (cymbals, guitars, synths, whatever) are masking the "snap" of the tone you enjoy in your bedroom.

The fix might be as simple as dialing up a bit more on the top end--your bass, the amp, both.

Added: one more thing. Rereading your threadstarter post, it sounds like your compressor might be squashing your slapping. Lighten up on the compression ratio, and see if that helps. Me (I play fingerstyle and slap), I've found parallel compression (i.e., a blend of compressed and uncompressed signal) works best.

 

[Jrussblues]

My action is pretty low. The result was that my slap was actually lower in the mix than my finger style. A compressor woke it up.

 

[Tom Baker]

Perhaps the adrenaline of playing live has you slapping too hard. I always had a problem with this and had to fight the urge to be too aggressive which weirdly kills your sound when slapping. Too much attack, not enough note.

 

[jdh3000]

I think I understand the problem you're experiencing...maybe...

At home, practicing, you prolly don't need much top end to have a pleasing pop tone. On the bandstand, it might be that other high frequency sources (cymbals, guitars, synths, whatever) are masking the "snap" of the tone you enjoy in your bedroom.

The fix might be as simple as dialing up a bit more on the top end--your bass, the amp, both.

Added: one more thing. Rereading your threadstarter post, it sounds like your compressor might be squashing your slapping. Lighten up on the compression ratio, and see if that helps. Me (I play fingerstyle and slap), I've found parallel compression (i.e., a blend of compressed and uncompressed signal) works best.

That really makes sense. Indeed slap tone is a whole different animal.

I will definitely try all that you suggested... Thank you!

 

[jdh3000]

Perhaps the adrenaline of playing live has you slapping too hard. I always had a problem with this and had to fight the urge to be too aggressive which weirdly kills your sound when slapping. Too much attack, not enough note.

Definitely a possibility... Not being as comfortable with it as say my normal playing style could be unconsciously causing me to tense up and choke off the sound... I hadn't thought about that.

There are several factors being presented here in this thread that are most likely all contributing to it.

I probably feel like I should be able to go out and reproduce what I do in my practice room
just as with my other bass playing, yet lack of doing it live is inhibiting me from it.

It's been too long since I first played live but I mire than likely wasn't very fluid, and neither did I expect it to be different than it was, there were a thousand thoughts running through my mind.

This all makes a great deal of sense. I just need to ease into it... Thank you for pointing this out!

 

[Samatza]

Quite often when you set things up at home at lower volume levels you tend to boost some of the low frequencies to get a nice punch. Now live when you turn that volume up those settings become overwhelming and you sound like mud. My GK rig sounds really thin at low volumes but crank it up a bit and the bottom end becomes huge.

Same thing happens with scooping the mids, live you need more mids than when you play at home and less bass. Experiment with your EQ and you should be able to get the same sound or close to what you hear at home at stage levels, I think you'll be surprised by how different the EQ needs to be.

 

[topper]

A lot of good advice here. I have a Zoom MS60B and I have a patch set up specifically for this. I started with one of presets (I think it was called slap, or flea, or something like that). I tweaked it a little and put a bypass in front of it. Anytime I play a song where I'll be slapping, I pull that patch up.

Eq, compression, and level are all a bit different for slap. Without that patch anytime I slap it gets completely lost in the mix.

The only way I've been able to address this without a multi effects unit is to crank my volume and play VERY lightly finger style. Then when I slap it's loud enough to cut through. But the multi effects solution is better.

 

[Lagado]

Dude, forget the boxes, work on your technique.