Slap not the same live.

[jdh3000]

Quite often when you set things up at home at lower volume levels you tend to boost some of the low frequencies to get a nice punch. Now live when you turn that volume up those settings become overwhelming and you sound like mud. My GK rig sounds really thin at low volumes but crank it up a bit and the bottom end becomes huge.

Same thing happens with scooping the mids, live you need more mids than when you play at home and less bass. Experiment with your EQ and you should be able to get the same sound or close to what you hear at home at stage levels, I think you'll be surprised by how different the EQ needs to be.

Yes, when the volume goes up is where I'm losing it. I'm used to adjusting my tone for my regular playing instinctively, and thought I was boosting the right frequencies live for slap, but most likely not enough.
I'm going to just overdo it the next time in setup then xut some frequencies. That eq is on an effects pedal so I can save it for later.

Thanks!

 

[jdh3000]

A lot of good advice here. I have a Zoom MS60B and I have a patch set up specifically for this. I started with one of presets (I think it was called slap, or flea, or something like that). I tweaked it a little and put a bypass in front of it. Anytime I play a song where I'll be slapping, I pull that patch up.

Eq, compression, and level are all a bit different for slap. Without that patch anytime I slap it gets completely lost in the mix.

The only way I've been able to address this without a multi effects unit is to crank my volume and play VERY lightly finger style. Then when I slap it's loud enough to cut through. But the multi effects solution is better.

I need to look back through my presets to see if I can find that.

If I ever saved over it I'll have to do a factory reset to get it back, which I guess would erase the firmware update.

Thanks, I'm going to work on that!

 

[jdh3000]

Dude, forget the boxes, work on your technique.

I appreciate your advice. I always work on my technique, but the technique I use in practice at home shouldn't be dramatically different than what I play live.

Many are against using any kinds of stomps, multi, or any pedals; but these are tools, and having an eq on a pedalboard for example is no more cheating to get a sound than the eq on an amp. I can't change the eq setting on an amp every time I want to slap, and no doubt there is something frequency related affecting it if the sound changes drastically form practice room to stage.
It much easier to set up something to kick on and off.
As far as comp goes, it's just another tool. It's not going to save bad technique, but it can even out a high volume response and save a speaker. Plus ad a texture to the percussive sound that again is no different than using eq.
An exclusively upright acoustic player might say we don't need any if this equipment.
Again I know what you are saying and technique is alway foremost in my mind. I address that first thing.
If I go out into a boomy room, as good as my technique is, I still want a parametric eq and hpf to help with that. Sometimes you can't hit a note light enough to keep it down.

 

[Lagado]

I appreciate your advice. I always work on my technique, but the technique I use in practice at home shouldn't be dramatically different than what I play live.

Many are against using any kinds of stomps, multi, or any pedals; but these are tools, and having an eq on a pedalboard for example is no more cheating to get a sound than the eq on an amp. I can't change the eq setting on an amp every time I want to slap, and no doubt there is something frequency related affecting it if the sound changes drastically form practice room to stage.
It much easier to set up something to kick on and off.
As far as comp goes, it's just another tool. It's not going to save bad technique, but it can even out a high volume response and save a speaker. Plus ad a texture to the percussive sound that again is no different than using eq.
An exclusively upright acoustic player might say we don't need any if this equipment.
Again I know what you are saying and technique is alway foremost in my mind. I address that first thing.
If I go out into a boomy room, as good as my technique is, I still want a parametric eq and hpf to help with that. Sometimes you can't hit a note light enough to keep it down.

I've never used compressors, I do that by touch. When you slap, the volume drops. I set my headroom volume high, but I only use 60-70% of it on the fingers. But it's there when I need it. You're talking to the wrong guy for tech fixes, I own an Electro-Harmonix chorus pedal and that's it.

 

[Lava]

Sounds like an eq issue. When I started doing a lot more slap, I discovered that I had to adjust my eq much differently live than what I'd been using, and it actually worked out for the better in all my styles of playing. I'd been using way too much bass. Using an HPF was they key for me and my cabs, I now use a Mesa Boogie Subway amp with the built in HPF. I use a Kelley Bassist Compressor/Limiter and that helps as well to keep my slapping at a consistent volume.

 

[groove pump]

I appreciate your advice. I always work on my technique, but the technique I use in practice at home shouldn't be dramatically different than what I play live.

Many are against using any kinds of stomps, multi, or any pedals; but these are tools, and having an eq on a pedalboard for example is no more cheating to get a sound than the eq on an amp. I can't change the eq setting on an amp every time I want to slap, and no doubt there is something frequency related affecting it if the sound changes drastically form practice room to stage.
It much easier to set up something to kick on and off.
As far as comp goes, it's just another tool. It's not going to save bad technique, but it can even out a high volume response and save a speaker. Plus ad a texture to the percussive sound that again is no different than using eq.
An exclusively upright acoustic player might say we don't need any if this equipment.
Again I know what you are saying and technique is alway foremost in my mind. I address that first thing.
If I go out into a boomy room, as good as my technique is, I still want a parametric eq and hpf to help with that. Sometimes you can't hit a note light enough to keep it down.

One issue I'm getting more familiar with when I do any slapping - usually only one or two songs over a full gig - is that I can't slap so fast while on stage if I want what I'm playing to have enough clarity. At home I can slap around rather fast, but there are no other instruments making sound and it's much easier to hear all the quick little notes when I'm popping and plucking around in that setting.

When recently playing with the band, I've been trying to slow down a little more and slap with some more melodic hooks, at least at the outset of a little solo. If my passive tone control is cut back at all and I'm about to slap, I'll open that up to get more bite when I'm playing those more snappy sounds that need that crisp attack. But if I go for too many notes or overly acrobatic stuff that isn't especially musical, it just gets lost in the room.

Now that I'm slapping in a lower gear and the folks at our shows can hear what I'm playing, they're diggin' it a LOT more than in the past. A while ago when I'd slap-solo a little bit, I'd get maybe a polite whoop or two after ripping away on something that felt good and sounded right to me. But I eventually got the feeling that the super fast stuff just couldn't reach the ears out in the room.

I got thinking on this issue after catching a few interviews of both bass and guitar players through recent years. While the studio can catch and reproduce almost everything that somebody might play, the common sentiment seems to be that playing live is more tricky. We can overcook it more easily without knowing it. Billy Sheehan and George Lynch were two guys among several who pointed this out.

I don't know a specific gear solution to help with delivering a live slap sound that's more potent, but I like the idea of have an eq or something at the ready with a quick stomp. We can't waste time killing the groove while noodling with amp settings before we slap-ify. I just offered this thought because playing a little less has been a huge boost (Ha!!... boost, get it?) for what little slapping I do with the band regardless of how my eq is set.

Oh - and don't forget your envelope filter. Uncle Bootsy will thank you later

 

[Dluxe]

IEM's help instead of a floor monitor or your amp. I always just had bass and vocals in my mix.

 

[jdh3000]

IEM's help instead of a floor monitor or your amp. I always just had bass and vocals in my mix.

I would like to go IEM... maybe before long.
Thanks!

 

[jdh3000]

Sounds like an eq issue. When I started doing a lot more slap, I discovered that I had to adjust my eq much differently live than what I'd been using, and it actually worked out for the better in all my styles of playing. I'd been using way too much bass. Using an HPF was they key for me and my cabs, I now use a Mesa Boogie Subway amp with the built in HPF. I use a Kelley Bassist Compressor/Limiter and that helps as well to keep my slapping at a consistent volume.

I'm using the hpf in my zoom pedal, it works pretty well but I'm planning on getting something either standalone like Broughton or something like you have.

Thanks!

 

[jdh3000]

One issue I'm getting more familiar with when I do any slapping - usually only one or two songs over a full gig - is that I can't slap so fast while on stage if I want what I'm playing to have enough clarity. At home I can slap around rather fast, but there are no other instruments making sound and it's much easier to hear all the quick little notes when I'm popping and plucking around in that setting.

When recently playing with the band, I've been trying to slow down a little more and slap with some more melodic hooks, at least at the outset of a little solo. If my passive tone control is cut back at all and I'm about to slap, I'll open that up to get more bite when I'm playing those more snappy sounds that need that crisp attack. But if I go for too many notes or overly acrobatic stuff that isn't especially musical, it just gets lost in the room.

Now that I'm slapping in a lower gear and the folks at our shows can hear what I'm playing, they're diggin' it a LOT more than in the past. A while ago when I'd slap-solo a little bit, I'd get maybe a polite whoop or two after ripping away on something that felt good and sounded right to me. But I eventually got the feeling that the super fast stuff just couldn't reach the ears out in the room.

I got thinking on this issue after catching a few interviews of both bass and guitar players through recent years. While the studio can catch and reproduce almost everything that somebody might play, the common sentiment seems to be that playing live is more tricky. We can overcook it more easily without knowing it. Billy Sheehan and George Lynch were two guys among several who pointed this out.

I don't know a specific gear solution to help with delivering a live slap sound that's more potent, but I like the idea of have an eq or something at the ready with a quick stomp. We can't waste time killing the groove while noodling with amp settings before we slap-ify. I just offered this thought because playing a little less has been a huge boost (Ha!!... boost, get it?) for what little slapping I do with the band regardless of how my eq is set.

Oh - and don't forget your envelope filter. Uncle Bootsy will thank you later

Yes I need to take heed to pull back on it in live situations. It will probably project better coupled with the right eq.

Thank you!

 

[MrLenny1]

IMHO try a specific Eq setting for slap and
turn it on as needed. I have an amp with 3 memory banks
that make it easy to switch to different Eq settings.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I used to never been good at slapping, but always liked it.

A while back I decided to spend more time on my technique.
I have some decent riffs to work off of and would like to inject them in certain songs live just to add a bit to some funk style tunes and taking a solo.

In my practice room, without really doing much to the eq, I get a good solid slap/pop going. I can even play along with the songs(our actual recordings) I want to use it in and it sounds good.

Problem is when do it live it really doesn't sound right. I run over some licks during sound check and it doesn't sound right. It's difficult to describe, the slap pop is there just nothing rings out. More of a thud like sound.

I've got some patches on my zoom pedal that I vamp up the eq and should be getting a good tone. I have my strap to fixed to pull it up when I want it.

I know "bedroom sound" doesn't equate live sound, but I should still be able to approximate my slap sound live.

Has anyone else run into this. Should I keep experimenting with my eq for live?

Thanks!

I find a compressor helps immensely with live sound, especially slapping because it creates such peaks, and helps bring more oomph to the thump and helps it ring longer. Just my experience, but I can't really play slap bass without a touch of compression, in sure some can and do tho

 

[Bringindafunk]

+1 for compression. I use the MXR M87. Set for slow attack, fast release and 12 or 20 ratio so the pops have a chance to bang through before the compression kicks in. I then set the output for a bit above unity to boost everything coming out of the pedal and it really helps a lot.

 

[Thumb n Fingers]

I've run into this also. Couple of posters have touched on what I have found works already.

When I make a transition to slap from finger style, I'll step on my compressor and my volume boost (MXR Micro Amp is what I use now, but I've also used an EXH Soul Food and an old DOD Biffet Boost with good results). Just set the boost to give you about a 7-15% increase in volume depending on what you learn during a sound check before the show.

Technique also... like @Tom Baker noted... you can get yourself lost in the playing and overdue it. And that seems to have the reverse effect with slap.

 

[nilorius]

Sorry, can't help, never liked slap, never learnd it, impossible because fretless playing, but it could be liked.

 

[P. Aaron]

We played at the North Texas Irish Festival this Saturday & Sunday and I mentioned to the drummer, that even with the provided back line of bass, drums and guitar provided, the onstage mix was good, even great, but it wasn’t a tone anywhere close to manageable or what we all pursue as musicians. We got volume if we needed it but tone was in short supply. Every room & situation changes those tones.

Long story short, you’ll find a way to get that slap tone in more live situations. Most likely through adjustments, some large, some small.

Good luck.

 

[jdh3000]

IMHO try a specific Eq setting for slap and
turn it on as needed. I have an amp with 3 memory banks
that make it easy to switch to different Eq settings.

I was in there today making a new patch on my zoom ms60b. The one I had set up just didn't have a enough top end, more than my other setting but not enough.
I really pushed it up and added some more compression.

It sounds now like it should ring out live, but only being there will tell.

Thank you!

 

[jdh3000]

We played at the North Texas Irish Festival this Saturday & Sunday and I mentioned to the drummer, that even with the provided back line of bass, drums and guitar provided, the onstage mix was good, even great, but it wasn’t a tone anywhere close to manageable or what we all pursue as musicians. We got volume if we needed it but tone was in short supply. Every room & situation changes those tones.

Long story short, you’ll find a way to get that slap tone in more live situations. Most likely through adjustments, some large, some small.

Good luck.

We have house sound issues but they are being resolved somewhat.

We have on of those devices that sweeps the room for frequencies and attenuates them, I think it's a feedback eliminator, and supposedly you can save the scene where you don't have to do it every time, but I'm a little skeptical of the over all effectiveness of it. I played in bands for years that fought off such difficulties with just minor tweaks to the eq.

There's no perfect room, or even outdoor hollow stages... and some rooms are horrendous for sound, bass in particular.

The best sound I've ever gotten was outside set up on the ground. Just some mats under us.

 

[Wasnex]

I've never used compressors, I do that by touch. When you slap, the volume drops. I set my headroom volume high, but I only use 60-70% of it on the fingers. But it's there when I need it. You're talking to the wrong guy for tech fixes, I own an Electro-Harmonix chorus pedal and that's it.

The way the volume balances when you switch between slap and finger style can vary significantly from bass to bass. It's probably not a surprise that the best bass in my collection for switching back and forth between slap and finger style is my Modulus Flea. Supposedly Flea and Modulus spent a lot of time working on this. No EQ or volume changes are required and the bass sounds naturally compressed to me.

I have played other basses where it really was useful to change the EQ, adjust the level, and add a bit of compression when I switch to slap. Sure I can compensate with technique, but IMHO it sounds and feels a lot better if I use the proper tools.

I am not advocating using these tools as a crutch and I don't generally need to use any tools with my #1 bass (Yamaha TRB6P) as long as the strings are not totally dead.

If my points are not clear...the bass and strings are significant factors in whether you may need to adjust EQ, level, and apply compression when you switch between finger style and slap. Another important factor is the specific slap sound you are going for...there are many.

 

[Wasnex]

We have house sound issues but they are being resolved somewhat.

We have on of those devices that sweeps the room for frequencies and attenuates them, I think it's a feedback eliminator, and supposedly you can save the scene where you don't have to do it every time, but I'm a little skeptical of the over all effectiveness of it. I played in bands for years that fought off such difficulties with just minor tweaks to the eq.

There's no perfect room, or even outdoor hollow stages... and some rooms are horrendous for sound, bass in particular.

The best sound I've ever gotten was outside set up on the ground. Just some mats under us.

You can't really save a preset for a feedback eliminator to be used at the next gig if the gear is not left in place.

Some modes of feedback are dependent on room resonances and microphone characteristics. A preset has a good chance of catching these. Other modes of feedback are based on the distance between the mics and speakers. Unless everything is in exactly the same position, the presets for these modes of feedback will become invalid.

I used to ring my PA for feedback at every gig. I noticed there were a few frequencies that I always dipped, but most of the corrections varied significantly from gig to gig.

If the temperature in the room changes significantly, you may have to ring the room a second time because it can shift resonances up or down.