Statement about major scales True/False?

[Phlipper]

Is this statement true (checking my understanding of the Major scale)?

Any major scale that requires a double sharp or double flat when written out is said to 'not exist' only because writing/reading the enharmonic equivalent scale is easier.

True?

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Right off the top of my head I know of no scale that has a double sharp or flat in it. Could be it is easier to read the equivalent note or chord, as you said. The only double flat I have come up on is in the R-b3-4-5-bb7 or full diminished chord.

 

[ba55i5t]

Is this statement true (checking my understanding of the Major scale)?

Any major scale that requires a double sharp or double flat when written out is said to 'not exist' only because writing/reading the enharmonic equivalent scale is easier.

True?

I don't want to say true but the idea of enharmonic equivalence is very interesting. I always was under the impression of 12 keys, but in the "Music theory is simple" video from Wooten he brings in all 3 enharmonic keys (that exist) to total 15.

When it comes to those theoretical keys like A# for example, you'd get a scale of A# B# C## D# E# F## G##, you've run out of space to write all sharps. So while they may exist theoretically, and you might be asked to write it out on a music exam, they don't fulfill any practical purpose.

 

[Phlipper]

Thnx for chiming in, Mal. You've always been very patient with us theory newbs. I'll try to clarify:

The notes of the G# Major Scale written out are ...

G# A# B# C# D# E# F+ G# with F being a double sharp

But writing out the Db Major Scale ...

Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db no doubles

So I'm assuming that when my book says "the G# major scale doesn't exist" she actually means it isn't used conventionally because the enharmonic equivalent is easier/cleaner to read and write?

Same thing applies to the D# maj scale, the Fb maj scale, etc.

 

[Phlipper]

Thnx Ba.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

F+ F being a double sharp

The proper way to notate the Major scale is to use all given scale notes:
C D E F G A B C.
What is next letter after E?
Yes, F.
But you need that F be as true G natural; therefore,
F x.

 

[Phlipper]

In the book she uses a symbol sorta like a plus sign for double sharps. So I used F+ to mean F##. Sry for the confusion.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db no doubles

If we remove those flats, we'll get the following notes:
D E F G A B C D - all white piano notes in order - the proper way to notate a major scale.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

In the book she uses a symbol sorta like a plus sign for double sharps. So I used F+ to mean F##. Sry for the confusion.

 

[Phlipper]

I'll use an 'x' from now on, then.

 

[tubedude]

If we remove those flats, we'll get the following notes:
D E F G A B C D - all white piano notes in order - the proper way to notate a major scale.

All white keys is only a major scale in the key of C.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

All white keys is only a major scale in the key of C.

Excellent point to help to learn any major scale.
Let’s get back to my first comment in this thread.
What note letters do we have without flat/sharp accidentals?

 

[dreamadream99]

There are 15 key signatures, that correspond to 15 major scales, and they are C (no sharps or flats), 7 flat keys, and seven sharp keys (with enharmonic equivalents between Db/C#, Gb/F#, and Cb/B).

There are no major key signatures with double sharps or double flats, therefore there are no major keys with double sharps or double flats.

Double flats and double sharps come into play in 2 situations:

1. To express the accidentals in certain secondary dominant and diminished chords.
2. To express the accidentals in certain melodic and harmonic minor scales.

In both cases, however, the accidentals are outside of the key.

 

[brianrost]

The problem is that G# and Ab are technically not the same key. With modern use of equal temperament instruments are tuned with compromises so that they can play in all 12 major keys without having to retune. But if you use your ear, you will hear that certain pitches (notably the major third) are slightly out of tune in all keys. In just intonation the note C in the key of Ab major is a different pitch than the C in the key of C major. Yes, this stuff makes your head hurt.

EDIT: Sorry, I got the frets wrong the first time To hear this, start playing harmonics on your G string some time. You will hear the following tones: G (open), G (12th fret harmonic), D (7th fret harmonic), B (9th fret harmonic), While that B is a pure major third, to our ears it sounds slightly out of tune because we are so used to equal temperament. Now start playing harmonics on the E string...B is found at the 7th fret harmonic. Compare that pitch (by ear or use your tuner) with the B harmonic on the G string!!

So if a piece is in the key of G major and modulates up a half-step, technically it's now in G#. OK, when playing this at the local bucket of blood barroom you will probably think Ab but then you probably aren't reading charts, either. If you are playing at the Concertgubow, then it really is G#.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I'll use an 'x' from now on, then.

Now, try to notate the E# major scale.

 

[Phlipper]

The problem is that G# and Ab are technically not the same key. With modern use of equal temperament instruments are tuned with compromises so that they can play in all 12 major keys without having to retune. But if you use your ear, you will hear that certain pitches (notably the major third) are slightly out of tune in all keys. in just intonation the note C in the key of Ab major is a different pitch than the C in the key of C major. Yes, this stuff makes your head hurt.

To hear this, start playing harmonics on your G string some time. You will hear the following tones: G (open), G (12th fret harmonic), D (9th fret harmonic), G (7th fret harmonic), B (harmonic near 5th fret). While that B is a pure major third, to our ears it sounds slightly out of tune because we are so used to equal temperament.

I think my brain just exploded.

(Phlipper runs back to his little theory book ... )

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I think my brain just exploded.

(Phlipper runs back to his little theory book ... )

Don’t get distracted!
Your question was about the major scale notation; therefore, one thing at a time - nothing else until you totally understand one thing.

 

[brianrost]

Now, try to notate the E# major scale.

E# F## G## A# B# C## D##

Isn't this fun? Composers only use these weird key signatures for tuning reasons. When used as accidentals, double sharps or flats are to avoid mixing sharps and flats on the sheet.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

E# F## G## A# B# C## D##

Isn't this fun?

Now that we have learned the proper notation ( not the whole music theory book!) of any major scale we can move on other music theory subjects.

 

[HolmeBass]

Is this statement true (checking my understanding of the Major scale)?

Any major scale that requires a double sharp or double flat when written out is said to 'not exist' only because writing/reading the enharmonic equivalent scale is easier.

True?

I am not sure, I think perhaps the people making that claim may be disregarding them as some sort of an edge case because they need accidentals to be written. Now I am questioning that - as far as I know you do not put double sharps or double flats in a key signature.

I this about the Wooten video and how many major scales are there?