Stringing, Tuning, Intonation and Witnesses

[carl h.]

thing is you'd need a tuner "fast" enough to actually read that attack, which means a real analog strobe tuner. for me it's the sonic research turbo-tuner, nothing else comes close.

Try the app tunable. It has no equal that I've found.
Tunable - Instrument and Skill Tuner by AffinityBlue

It tracks and gives a visual recording of where pitch is now, and where it was for the duration - initial transient attack, sustain and decay are all shown at the same time. Sounds odd, but it is a phenomenal app for tuning strings that are going false and tricky things like drums. I can now tune a timp head with noise around because I don't need to hear the attack (I don't mean tune to a pitch, but tune to itself so it sings). It is really worth few bucks it costs.

I'm not a paid spokesman, just a working musician that found something that really works.

 

[TheIndieKid]

Consensus? No. Opinions - plenty. I prefer fewer wraps than many suggest. The more string there is on the post, the more there is to hold slack (for a while). And when that slack gets worked out, your string goes flat.

One common view is that you should have enough wraps on the post so that the string winds down to the very bottom of the post. That ensures a good break angle at the nut. However, you can achieve a good break angle in most cases without a lot of windings. You just need to force the windings to the bottom of the post. Those tuners with tapered posts will force the string to the bottom with as little as one winding on the post.

OTOH, the string is held in position on the post by friction alone (unless you have string-locking tuners). If you have too little winding on the post, there may not be enough surface friction to keep the string from slipping. So conventional wisdom says you should have 2 to 3 complete wraps on the post to ensure there will be no slippage.

But how do you ensure that you will get 2 to 3 windings on the post when you are about to cut your new strings? Should you cut the string 4 inches past the post? Four fingers past the post? Well, it depends on the post diameter. 4 inches of string are going to give a lot more wraps on a skinny post than a fat one. So, next time you are about to do a string change, do this. Take a string off - remove it from the tuner and the bridge. Cut it at a point where you have a length of straight string to work with. Stick the end of the string in the hole in the centre of the tuner. Bend it at right angles through the slot in the tuner. Bend it again tight against the tuner post as if you were going to wind it in the usual way. Wrap the string tightly around the post 2 or 3 times (take your pick) and mark the string at that last wind. Take the string off and straighten the windings. Measure the distance from the end of the string to the mark you made. Now you know where to cut the new string beyond the post to ensure your choice of windings.

There is neat trick you can do using this information to have all the tuning machine ears line up in the same plane (or close) when the bass is in tune. See if you can figure it out.

I just want to revisit this, having ordered some new strings and desperately wanting to have a method in which they are fitted in best manner. Do you mean cut the old string before where it's coiled around the tuning post?

 

[Turnaround]

I just want to revisit this, having ordered some new strings and desperately wanting to have a method in which they are fitted in best manner. Do you mean cut the old string before where it's coiled around the tuning post?

I didn't do a good job of describing this. Let's try again.

When you remove the old string, cut off the end that was curled around the tuning post and throw out that curled up bit. Take what's left, stick in in the hole of the tuning post, and bend it into the slot in the tuner. Then wrap the string around the post three times and mark the point on the string where the last wrap leaves the post, then remove the string. Feed your new string trough the bridge and into position at the headstock with the free end extending past the tuner post. Straighten out the wraps you just put the old string and use the section you marked to the end as a ruler to measure the distance from the tuner post to the cut point on the new string.

Does this help?

 

[TheIndieKid]

I didn't do a good job of describing this. Let's try again.

When you remove the old string, cut off the end that was curled around the tuning post and throw out that curled up bit. Take what's left, stick in in the hole of the tuning post, and bend it into the slot in the tuner. Then wrap the string around the post three times and mark the point on the string where the last wrap leaves the post, then remove the string. Feed your new string trough the bridge and into position at the headstock with the free end extending past the tuner post. Straighten out the wraps you just put the old string and use the section you marked to the end as a ruler to measure the distance from the tuner post to the cut point on the new string.

View attachment 3645171

Does this help?

Indeed! Thank you very much. So, in hindsight, the best method for installing strings is:
1) Do the above
2) Turn the intonation screws so that the saddles are backed away from the pickups.
3) Lower pickups.
4) Install the new strings through the bridge, bend them where the mark on the old string was and cut an inch past the bend.
5) Insert bent section into tuning peg, until it can't go further.
6) Tune up just until when the string starts to become tense (Thing is, what is tense?)
7) Push ball end out of bridge. (I find this hard to do on a quick-release bridge).
8) Bring string in tune.
9) Set witness points
10) Set intonation again.
11) Reset witness points.
12) Raise pickups to preferred height.
13) Set intonation again.
14) Reset witness points.

 

[Turnaround]

Indeed! Thank you very much. So, in hindsight, the best method for installing strings is:
1) Do the above
2) Turn the intonation screws so that the saddles are backed away from the pickups.
3) Lower pickups.
4) Install the new strings through the bridge, bend them where the mark on the old string was and cut an inch past the bend.
5) Insert bent section into tuning peg, until it can't go further.
6) Tune up just until when the string starts to become tense (Thing is, what is tense?)
7) Push ball end out of bridge. (I find this hard to do on a quick-release bridge).
8) Bring string in tune.
9) Set witness points
10) Set intonation again.
11) Reset witness points.
12) Raise pickups to preferred height.
13) Set intonation again.
14) Set witness points.

Darn good. In step 6, the degree of tension is not important. The idea is to make sure the ball end is free to rotate in case there was any twist introduced as the string was wound. But if you used the tuner to wind the string onto the post there won't be any twist anyway. You get twist when you manually wind the string onto the post rather than turning the tuner key.

Steps 13 and 14 should not be necessary. If raising the pickups affects the intonation, you're raised them too far. And in most cases you don't need to lower the pickups in the first place, at least not if the bass was properly set up in the first place before you changed strings.

 

[TheIndieKid]

Darn good. In step 6, the degree of tension is not important. The idea is to make sure the ball end is free to rotate in case there was any twist introduced as the string was wound. But if you used the tuner to wind the string onto the post there won't be any twist anyway. You get twist when you manually wind the string onto the post rather than turning the tuner key.

Steps 13 and 14 should not be necessary. If raising the pickups affects the intonation, you're raised them too far. And in most cases you don't need to lower the pickups in the first place, at least not if the bass was properly set up in the first place before you changed strings.

How do you set pickups? I've generally gone by the guidance from Haze Guitars - a minimum distance of 5/64 on the E and 6/64 on the G on the bridge pickup, setting the others relatively. Generally, as high as possible without inducing negative effects. Is this what you go by?

 

[Turnaround]

How do you set pickups? I've generally gone by the guidance from Haze Guitars - a minimum distance of 5/64 on the E and 6/64 on the G on the bridge pickup, setting the others relatively. Generally, as high as possible without inducing negative effects. Is this what you go by?

It's entirely dependent on the strength of the magnets in the pickup and your string choice. I start with 1/8" all round and adjust from there. I do that by raising the pickup a bit until I hear it interfering with the harmonics, then back it down a bit. I do that on the bass side of the pickup, then adjust the treble side to get a balance side -to-side. If there is harmonic interference on the high side then, I back that side down until it's clear, then re-balance by lowering the bass side. It all will really depend on the magnetic strength of the pickups and how reactive the strings are to the magnets. Optimizing it is one of the fussier parts of a good setup.
To get in the ballpark I will check to see if the manufacturer has any recommendation and I will go with that as a start. But their recommendations will not be optimum because your string choice will also have an effect.

 

[TheIndieKid]

It's entirely dependent on the strength of the magnets in the pickup and your string choice. I start with 1/8" all round and adjust from there. I do that by raising the pickup a bit until I hear it interfering with the harmonics, then back it down a bit. I do that on the bass side of the pickup, then adjust the treble side to get a balance side -to-side. If there is harmonic interference on the high side then, I back that side down until it's clear, then re-balance by lowering the bass side. It all will really depend on the magnetic strength of the pickups and how reactive the strings are to the magnets. Optimizing it is one of the fussier parts of a good setup.
To get in the ballpark I will check to see if the manufacturer has any recommendation and I will go with that as a start. But their recommendations will not be optimum because your string choice will also have an effect.

Thank you for that. I'm thinking of how to implement that with my next set of strings. I'm going from stainless steel flatwounds to pure nickel roundwounds, so I need the reset the pickup heights without ruining my string during the intonation process. After all, the string is affected by the magnetic field.

 

[TheIndieKid]

Can you install bass strings on a short scale Fender headstock in the same manner as a long scale? I'm wondering because aren't the pegs closer together?

I know that there's the "two pegs in front and cut" method for installing strings on Fender style headstocks: How to measure the right amount of string to clip when installing new bass strings on Fender-style headstock | eBass

I was wondering if you need to leave a little more or less for a Mustang Bass, or Bronco Bass headstock?

I'll post this in the Mustang Club and see what they say too.

 

[JKos]

so I need the reset the pickup heights without ruining my string during the intonation process. After all, the string is affected by the magnetic field.

Not an issue. You can't ruin the string(s) by getting the pickup too close.

- John

 

[Turnaround]

The "two pegs past" idea is just a guideline. I would say that if you get three full wraps around the post it's about ideal. A bit more or a bit less is not a big deal. Force the winding down the post so that the last one comes off the post as close to the peghead as possible on those strings that don't have a hold-down.

 

[TheIndieKid]

The "two pegs past" idea is just a guideline. I would say that if you get three full wraps around the post it's about ideal. A bit more or a bit less is not a big deal. Force the winding down the post so that the last one comes off the post as close to the peghead as possible on those strings that don't have a hold-down.

How long do you find you have to cut the strings to get that many wraps on vintage-style pegs?

 

[Turnaround]

I usually use the 2-past method. But I bend the string at right angles there, then cut about 1/2" past the bend. Bend first to prevent the outer string wraps from unwinding.

 

[Turnaround]

A further note about intonation. Common lore tells you that the harmonic at the 12th fret is exactly an octave above the open string. That's true in theory. In real life it's not true. If you have a very accurate tuner that can measure in fractions of a cent you can see for yourself.

Tune the E string to the 12th fret harmonic. Get it tuned to within 1 cent. Then check the open string. You are likely to find it sharp by several cents (about 4.5 in the case of my test bass).

And while we are at it, check out the effects of gravity on tuning. Tune any string as accurately as you can using an open string or harmonic. As you tune, hold the bass in playing position. Then rotate the bass so the top is skyward - support it by the body alone, nothing touching the neck. It will be sharp a lot - almost 7 cents in the case of my test bass.. It doesn't help to hold the bass by the body and neck - it's still sharp by about 3 cents. flipping the bass over the error is similar.