Subwoofer Placement/configuration

jacobrownoly

jacobrownoly

Jun 16, 2007
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#1
I play in a live 6 piece wedding band and I am looking for some advice on subwoofer placement.

We typical play big marquees (150-200 people) and we have also gone with the typical subs and tops left and right of the stage.

I run my own sound from the stage using a wireless pack and over the years I would like to think I have mastered the art of getting it at a good sounding level, but I have also noticed the bass cancellation that this placement causes. During sound checks the kick, bass and overall bass EQ sounds massive at each side of the stage (in front of the speakers) but as i move to the middle the bass EQ almost disappears. This does help however when people are up dancing but I have known for a while this isn’t ideal.

This is our typical set up
811E656F-DB0C-41BE-9BBF-2A76EA7D79F3.jpeg


Do you think this would be a better option (excuse the poor drawing)
6567A79D-27F8-41EF-9C92-314A0D5FEFAB.jpeg


Subs (in green) would now be placed on their sides and in-between the floor monitors.

This wouldn’t obviously look great but do you think this would sound better?

Thanks
 
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#3
jacobrownoly said:
I play in a live 6 piece wedding band and I am looking for some advice on subwoofer placement.

We typical play big marquees (150-200 people) and we have also gone with the typical subs and tops left and right of the stage.

I run my own sound from the stage using a wireless pack and over the years I would like to think I have mastered the art of getting it at a good sounding level, but I have also noticed the bass cancellation that this placement causes. During sound checks the kick, bass and overall bass EQ sounds massive at each side of the stage (in front of the speakers) but as i move to the middle the bass EQ almost disappears. This does help however when people are up dancing but I have known for a while this isn’t ideal.

This is our typical set up
View attachment 4782229

Do you think this would be a better option (excuse the poor drawing)
View attachment 4782230

Subs (in green) would now be placed on their sides and in-between the floor monitors.

This wouldn’t obviously look great but do you think this would sound better?

Thanks
Click to expand...

If the bass disappears right between the subs, in front of the stage, you have a polarity problem with left and right subs being "out of phase". Correctly setup, the bass level remains fairly flat when moving in a straight line between left sub and right sub.
 
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#4
Jig Man said:
The hard fast rule I've always followed is the subs should be 25-50 ft apart. If there isn't enough space for that, then the subs should be side by side like one large subwoofer in the very center. You'll get more low end from the subs by placing them together.
Click to expand...

25-50ft is still far away from each other, in general I would say our subs are never more than 25ft apart and I still get that bass cancellation towards the middle.
 
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#5
AlexanderB said:
If the bass disappears right between the subs, in front of the stage, you have a polarity problem with left and right subs being "out of phase". Correctly setup, the bass level remains fairly flat when moving in a straight line between left sub and right sub.
Click to expand...

I have a phase switch on each sub but going by the manual, it saids to only switch the phase when using different manufacturer tops.

I will try this next time, so would I only have one of the subs switched phase?
 
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#6
I believe what you're hearing is comb filtering. I remember reading years ago, the best way to avoid or partially control it is a separation of 50ft. If that isn't obtainable then they need to be side by side. It was information I read in a post by Bill Fitzmaurice years ago. I'm no pro myself, only trying to relay potential options to try.
 
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#7
Subs should not be separated. Check out the diagrams in this very informative guide for phase cancellations when subs are separated by different distances. Massive bass in some areas, lack of bass in others. I have heard this when I went out front with my wireless system. This is why major FOH systems cluster subs in the center. At the NAMM Show in June, ALL the stages had clustered subs.

https://www.sounddesignlive.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/A_Practical_Guide_To_Bass_Arrays.pdf
 
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#12
Here's the cancellation diagram with subs separated by 8 meters, a typical small stage width. Red shows areas of more bass energy, blue areas are nulls with a lack of bass. In a club, I've experienced too much bass in the red areas and not enough in the blue. (This plot is looking straight down from above.) In smaller rooms, when I had to separate subs for appearance, I ended up turning one sub off. Much smoother bass response, and one sub was adequate for sound. Plus I always had a spare.
Screen Shot 2022-08-14 at 3.34.55 PM.png
 
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#15
For decades, subs on the sides were the standard setups. As I already said, in a straight line between the subs, bass level is fairly consistent. As long as polarity is correct.
Clustering subs offer some advantages, but you will have even more deep bass in the middle of the stage, but more even radiation onto the dance floor.

Please note that the red radiation pattern is for 100 Hz. Nowadays, most subs are crossed over at 80Hz, with 3rd or 4th order filters. 100Hz contents should mainly come from the main speakers, not subs.
 
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#17
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#18
AlexanderB said:
For decades, subs on the sides were the standard setups. As I already said, in a straight line between the subs, bass level is fairly consistent. As long as polarity is correct.
Clustering subs offer some advantages, but you will have even more deep bass in the middle of the stage, but more even radiation onto the dance floor.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, so should I try next time having one sub at 180 phase and the other one at 0 phase? Could that help?
 
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#19
jacobrownoly said:
Thanks for this, so should I try next time having one sub at 180 phase and the other one at 0 phase? Could that help?
Click to expand...
Yes, try with mains plus ONE sub. Listen, switch polarity until you have the smoothest trqnsition between mains and sub. Then turn up sub nr 2. Get in between the subs. Try changing polarity of sub 2. Listen again.

Edit: one of your cables might have polarity swapped.
 
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#20
AlexanderB said:
Yes, try with mains plus ONE sub. Listen, switch polarity until you have the smoothest trqnsition between mains and sub. Then turn up sub nr 2. Get in between the subs. Try changing polarity of sub 2. Listen again.

Edit: one of your cables might have polarity swapped.
Click to expand...

I will try this but do you really think this could make a big difference?
 
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