Subwoofer Placement/configuration

[kittywithabanjo]

Interesting, I always use my subs to polemount my mains, next week I am doing an outdoor gig, and will have 4 15" subs in play the 2 on the sides holding my mains then I was going to center cluster the other 2, I do also see a fair number of people using a set up like this but spacing all 4 evenly, any insight which might work best, its outside about 10 feet infront of a building, then about 100 ft clear before there is another building.

 

[Jack]

I am keen to put our tops on stands and have our 2 subs on their sides together in the middle. Only thing is, it’s not that practical. The drunken audience we normally see at weddings would just use the subs as a table, leaving drinks on them, sitting on them ect ect

This is often something that gets overlooked on threads like this. I'm fully, fully aware that clustered subs is best and we do it whenever we can, but that's whenever we can. Other configurations include just one sub under one of the tops (the other on a stand), both subs stacked with one top on top (again, other on a stand) and the classic and much hated sub and top per side.

Yes, you will get comb filtering. That may be better or worse than: trip hazards, drinks ruining subs, having nowhere to put wedges, having to run a million cables to the middle of the stage (using those active subs that have in built crossovers), blocking the view of the singer's nice legs, not having enough floorspace, etc etc.

 

[jacobrownoly]

Yes, you will get comb filtering. That may be better or worse than: trip hazards, drinks ruining subs, having nowhere to put wedges, having to run a million cables to the middle of the stage (using those active subs that have in built crossovers), blocking the view of the singer's nice legs, not having enough floorspace, etc etc.

And this is the reason why I will probably keep doing what I am doing…it’s not worth the hassle from the crowd and other band members that will probably moan.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

You can make drink sliders for your subs with a bit of plywood and piano hinge

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I will try this but do you really think this could make a big difference?

There are just too many variables involved for anyone to say for certain how big a difference it will make. All of those variables are out of our control. Many of them are out of yours. Of the things you can control, each change you make impacts everything else, giving different outcomes. Aside from doing the physics, and hoping to replicate the theory in reality, you'll just need to take the suggestions found here and try things for yourself.

 

[pglaser01]

Next topic/point in relation…..if you say the room really only holds 150-200 people, then is floor coupling for these subs really something to be desired? Or would such a small space actually increase the issue of oversub freq in certain areas?

 

[Freight Train]

Are you sure they're in phase? That's exactly what would happen if they're out of phase. Even if they're powered internally the speakers could be wired out of phase. If they are powered internally, your connection cables could be out of phase. Start with the connection cables as that's the easiest. If they are wired properly, get the grill covers off so you can see the woofers. Give them a good low frequency pulse and see if both move out (or in) with the pulse. Either in or out, they should move the same direction with the pulse. If they don't the easy fix is to wire one of the connection cables out of phase to compensate. But that's a band-aid. The proper fix would be to open the cab and wire the speaker correctly.

 

[turcmic]

We add recurrent trouble in a large room until we stacked the subs in the middle in front of the stage. Fortunately, the stage was higher than the subs’ stack. Great coverage for the dance floor in front of us.

just my 0,02$

 

[fishdude101101]

If the bass disappears right between the subs, in front of the stage, you have a polarity problem with left and right subs being "out of phase". Correctly setup, the bass level remains fairly flat when moving in a straight line between left sub and right sub.

This. but once he gets the polarity fixed it will just move the hot spot. Its a classic problem. I'd put both those subs in the center together in this application.

 

[Roxbororob]

This is by far the best:

A different idea that I don't think has been suggested yet, is to place both subs on one side of the stage. I have done this and it worked pretty well.

The off to the side subs should be close together for coupling. You will hear the difference right away.

If having both subs together on side or the other is too inconvenient, dont go back to using one on each side. Use only one, pick your side.

EDIT: fixed "The off to the side subs..."

 

[crazyBassClown]

it’s not worth the hassle from the crowd and other band members that will probably moan.

I've certainly got the odd query/complaint for some of my more unorthodox sub placements. They usually stop after hearing the sound though.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

This is by far the best:



The off to the side subs should be close together for coupling. You will hear the difference right away.

If having both subs together on side or the other is too inconvenient, dont go back to using one on each side. Use only one, pick your side.

EDIT: fixed "The off to the side subs..."

Yup. Multiple subs can all be located together on one side or the other if you can't put them in the middle. The longer the wavelength the less it matters where the point source is located. The problems that exist when separating subs, even just a few feet, can change with frequency (wavelength) and the listeners location in relation to separated subs. Keeping them together is the safe bet.

 

[Marko 1]

I put the sub(s) on one side. I suppose the center might be functionally better, but I don't think it looks good there, at least the smaller stages I've typically been on.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I put the sub(s) on one side. I suppose the center might be functionally better, but I don't think it looks good there, at least the smaller stages I've typically been on.

I mean yeah, center is optimal, but one side or another works too. Just don't separate them

 

[Roxbororob]

Center has it's own problems (backwash onto stage).

 

[Scott Shaw]

I had a problem with the subs summing at the middle of the stage, right where our lead singer stood. Luckily, I had a digital stereo crossover. I just delayed one side slightly by a few milliseconds and moved the summing a few feet to the left.

 

[4Mal]

Radical thought... For 150 or 200 folks. Particularly in a tent... run 1 sub on the most exposed to the audience side and put the other top on a stand. In my case a single 181 would generally be loafing for 150 to 200 people. I try not to carry stuff I don't truly need. If you have to have the appearance... turn one off. Problem solved...

Center clustering... Unless the sound company has a plan for dealing (cardiod sub setup, etc) with the backwash I prefer not to be on a stage with center clustered subs. The boom is too distracting to my bands. I won't do it with the QSC subs or the EAW subs I own. I was very impressed with the QSC 212 rear cancelling cardiod sub I heard at NAMM a few years back. If I were investing in more subs today, those would be high on my list. In multiples, the newer Yamaha DXR (or is it DXS?) series subs can be setup for cardiod as well.

Truth is that there can never be one right answer to this. The physics of each venue will more of less doctate how ypu arrive at the best compromise.

Pic's below are from a small festival gig I did in early August. due to the space and the way the temporary stage was construxted I didn't have anything close to level ground on one side. My answer for that was PA on 1 side, tops splayed 'optimally' for the minimum interaction and best coverage. Subs clustered. We were about 12' over the crowd. The tops want to be high as their asymmetric pattern is 70 degress down, 20 up.

Sound wise, this worked great. Sounded nice down in the crowd. It was a little disturbing to look at for me... I'm so ised to seeimg the traditional band in the center look.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Do you have a front view?

 

[4Mal]

@kittywithabanjo It was too disturbing... ;-) Actually I was running around like a chicken with it's head off in way too much heat an never took the shot from out front.

 

[jacobrownoly]

I understand it’s up to myself to try these things but I think for us it’s going to be unrealistic to put the subs in the middle, as mentioned before about wild Scottish weddings!

However, I would like to try putting both subs on just one side and the other main speaker on a stand on the other side.

My question is, would I be better putting both subs on the ground side by side or actually stacking them and putting the main top speaker on top of them both, all while having one lonely top on the other side of the stage on a stand.