attendance isn't the issue, ticket prices and FEES are the issue. i only attend independent venues in my city now because i can see shows for 35 or less dollars out the door. also i know the artist is getting a significant cut of that.
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Ted Gioia Thinks Live Music Is Coming Back
- Thread starter brianrost
- Start date
For me, it's never went away. There are lots of great acts, for $60 or less, that I continue to see at small clubs to mid-size venues. It's extremely rare that I have any desire to see an arena show, and that's been the case for many years. Younger musicians still want to make music and play live, and I see no sign of that stopping.
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Making a living playing live music is a different story...
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Big name rock shows are too expensive, since they aren't making money selling their music.
But there are some great small clubs.
But there are some great small clubs.
Very true, but I'd also say that most young people don't expect to make a lot of money recording and touring their music. Big money rock stars are something that was ages ago, to them...if they are even aware of it.
Altitude
An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure.
None of us ever made money selling CDs. Almost none of us.
The ten bucks cash someone handed you at the merch table felt good at the moment.
Musicians, as a group not being great at accounting, forgot to write that ten bucks against the buttload of money they had to spend to get the 500 or 1000 CDs pressed in the first place and how many CDs they had to sell to pay back that buttload.
We were all pretty much deep in the hole once you factored in costs. Like, substantially negative. The acts that caught fire and actually made money on record sales are metaphorically the same ones who are actually making money on streaming now.
People decry the streaming revenue model but I’ve never seen anyone present a comparison on revenue and cost between streaming and merch table CDs at the sales volumes where 99.9% of artists operate. Streaming revenue is really low - but so are costs per stream.
Which isn’t me saying the streaming revenue model is perfect, just saying that it might be no worse than the old self-funded production and sales model.
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The Regattabar is pretty pricey. I saw Larry Goldings there, and John Scofield. You pay a premium price for one set. It's like Birdland, basically, but without the good sight lines.
We lost a pile of venues due to covid. Bars / clubs closed down never re-opened. The same that did survive either quit having bands or, pay very little trying to recover. The places we played kept us around so we never slowed much. Can't say the same for some area's in the state. Then the beer n burger bands got in the system and tried to backdoor good bands. Worked for a while until owners found out they were driving business away because they stunk.
That's what they played for. Feed us and we will do a 4 hour gig for a beer and a burger. Bar / club owners loved it. Didn't have to pay the regular band their standard fee. It eventually bit em in the ass when it ran crowds out the door. Then the regular bands (we were one) would get a phone call asking us to "please" come back!
We've watched around 10 venues either go under, go to the beer and burger model, or go to the Pay To Play model.
Speaking of which, we played a non profit multimedia coffee bar which was initially "designed for the sober community" go to the dark side. Last time we played there the "soundman" asked if we were part of the new "rented stage time" model. Can't remember my retort but it was something like "I'm just the bass player and you're just the soundman/barista. Don't forget, plenty of oatmilk in my latte...and froth it up!".
The bloody nerve ehh?
The poster meant big and major label artists aren’t selling CD/digital/physical. Due to the sad shift to streaming even the midsize and large artists make very little from streaming, so they have to make their money touring. Before streaming artists made money from physical sales, touring was a zero sum thing offered to the fans and as a way to win new fans. Without those revenue streams now new artists have to make that money on merch, meet and greet fees, ticket sales, etc which is why the musicians get paid very little even at the top now for NEW big artists. Because that artist hasn’t made their money yet. You get a legacy act from the early 2000’s or previous they made their money, they pay their musicians and crew well because the touring is still a zero sum game, they don’t NEED it. The below video explains it pretty well. It’s sad that as a local musician (stereotypically considered lesser than, not that I agree) I make just as much as touring guys now but I never leave my home and family.
One of our resident "beer n burger" bands had a gutsy, or stupid BL. I will say a little of both. I knew the guy, and he was supposed to be the lead singer. I've seen the band. He is terrible vocally and musically the band sucked. That's being nice. Out of the blue he called me. Basically, he wanted our set(s) list. When I asked him why, he said: "Because you guys play good music and have good crowds, that's what we want". I merely told him to "Earn It" and to never call me again!
Our drummer had left a 4 hour setlist on his snare after a Friday night gig. We were returning Saturday night. One of the girls working the venue saw him take the list. She confronted him. He told her to mind her own business and walked out. When she told me about it I told her: "that's fine, they can't play it or sing it". They never played there again. In fact, word got out about it. He hung the band out by doing what he did.
Our drummer had left a 4 hour setlist on his snare after a Friday night gig. We were returning Saturday night. One of the girls working the venue saw him take the list. She confronted him. He told her to mind her own business and walked out. When she told me about it I told her: "that's fine, they can't play it or sing it". They never played there again. In fact, word got out about it. He hung the band out by doing what he did.
AI fake cover bands on Spotify: Spotify Has a Fake-Band Problem. It’s a Sign of Things to Come.
A couple of months ago I read a thread on here about using holograms in concerts, and it inspired me to write an article about it: How the Music Machine Makes Myths Real: AI, Holograms, and Ashley Eternal
A couple of months ago I read a thread on here about using holograms in concerts, and it inspired me to write an article about it: How the Music Machine Makes Myths Real: AI, Holograms, and Ashley Eternal
Excluding concerts at larger venues. I think, ultimately, technology was the reason. I started going to bars and clubs in many states and a lot of places in Germany starting when I was 15 . It was my absolute favorite thing to see a good band. They were plentiful in the Seventies and Eighties. I aspired to be in one of them at some point. Life and career made me scared to dive in for quite a long time. It was difficult just to start a band, much less get 40 songs great enough to play out with. I eventually did it. I earned my way into bars and clubs! I always considered a good bar/ club band to be like the minor league is to baseball. Anyway, dJ's and the internet seems to have done more harm than good. I hope young people go out to every venue possible to see bands!
It made my youth a lot more fun.
Musicians should hustle owners of venues to let them perform, if they're ready. I got cool gigs like that.
It made my youth a lot more fun.
Musicians should hustle owners of venues to let them perform, if they're ready. I got cool gigs like that.
Then let's remove CDs from the equation for a moment and just talk about digital music purchases, where there is no 'overhead' like what is associated with the production of CDs. You still have costs incurred to record the music, whether you do it yourself or you do it in a proper studio. With CDs, as long as you charge an amount that covers your production margins AND puts a profit in your pocket, you're already doing better than streaming. Streaming is essentially playing a gig for free exposure - you're giving your music to them to play in exchange for fractions of a penny on the dollar. It's playing for shredded dollar bills as tips. It's not ever going to be a meaningful source of income - and it's arguably not one for even top tier artists. I don't see a 1:1 equivalent comparison to streaming and never will in that respect.
Now - if people would go back to buying digital music for the same price as a CD - then we'd be on to something. People will argue against CDs and for streaming till they're blue in the face, but the fact is that the missing gap is getting music consumers back to committing to buying music in a way which puts the most income back into an artist's pocket with minimal overhead. That's digital music purchases - not streaming.
The vinyl resurgence in terms of purchasing music and physical media is an interesting and cool esoteric aberration - but it's not realistic for the average artist because even crappy vinyl pressings are much more expensive than CD production these days. Your best bet is selling prepaid digital download cards, honestly.
I just can't imagine this level of egocentric territorial pissing over a local gig.... but I've seen worse. Local scenes are where people eat each other alive over $100 gigs with the decibel meter police, no food, and 2 drink tickets. Even worse if you don't drink! haha.
My daughter just attended an Avril Lavinge show at the local shed. She paid $60 for parking
I didn’t ask how much she paid for the tickets.
yep, the government is trying to break up Ticketmaster and frankly they should regulate ticket prices and fees. after that parking should be next, because it has gotten out of control as well.My daughter just attended an Avril Lavinge show at the local shed. She paid $60 for parking
I didn’t ask how much she paid for the tickets.