The Fifths Tuning Club

#861
Prodigus Filius said:
Yeh seen the 5 set 45-125. I would do it if absolutely required. Sure be cheaper than buying 6 Dunlop singles. But I reckon I'm gonna just try out CGDA on a 34" inch now. I think my ol mate Major ( my Mikro's name) is tired of me mucking about with him. He's a sensitive chap he he. I've got to get a new set of flats for the 34" anyhow because it had rounds on it when I bought it, but rounds give me the same feeling as finger nails dragged across a blackboard. The conundrum is I am pretty sure my fav brand of flats, Dunlop, doesn't go heavier in a set than 125 and I don't think that is enough for C1 tension wise. I think XL chrome flats go up to 132 but could be wrong. I think Dunlops sound better than Chromes though. And feel nicer to me. But other brands out there I might check out
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They are designed to be tuned to B it should be fine tuned up a half step. Chromes do go to .132 but I found them a little stiff when tuned up.
 
#863
Will_White said:
They are designed to be tuned to B it should be fine tuned up a half step. Chromes do go to .132 but I found them a little stiff when tuned up.
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Yeh chromes feel stiffer for sure. Have you tried the Roto77 monel flats in long scale. The 5 set includes a 130. From memory there are other brands doing long scale with 5 string sets in 130 or more
@srayb
Just on those total tensions I posted for CGDA. I based the C1 tension on a hypothetical 135
 
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#866
Les Fret said:
That is up to debate. Better sounding in what sense? More spread in the chords? On the other hand you can’t play a lot of (standard) chord voicing that are easy in fourths tuning.
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Less muddy, I'm not a fan of the standard close chord voicing (1 3 5) on bass, with 5ths the more open voicing (1 5 3) makes it so even in first position the chords are clear. Some chords are harder to do I'll give you that but others are easier, it's just a trade off.
 
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#867
Will_White said:
Less muddy, I'm not a fan of the standard close chord voicing (1 3 5) on bass, with 5ths the more open voicing (1 5 3) makes it so even in first position the chords are clear. Some chords are harder to do I'll give you that but others are easier, it's just a trade off.
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Agreed. I always wonder how double stop seconds and thirds are played on cello and fifths tuning bass. Do you play them with a fretted thumb over?
 
#869
Les Fret said:
What are the advantages of the fifths tuning over the fourths tuning? Besides having more range and being able to play cello pieces with the same fingering? Enlighten me!
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Triads in
Will_White said:
Less muddy, I'm not a fan of the standard close chord voicing (1 3 5) on bass, with 5ths the more open voicing (1 5 3) makes it so even in first position the chords are clear. Some chords are harder to do I'll give you that but others are easier, it's just a trade off.
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Will_White said:
Less muddy, I'm not a fan of the standard close chord voicing (1 3 5) on bass, with 5ths the more open voicing (1 5 3) makes it so even in first position the chords are clear. Some chords are harder to do I'll give you that but others are easier, it's just a trade off.
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That is something 5ths tuning really has going is open voicings. It's spreads the harmonics out out at the bottom and bunches them at the top. It's why Eric Johnson sounds the way he does. He is Mr spread voicing personified, although he does it in 4ths and has to string skip to do it some inversions. 5ths tuning makes open or spread voicing of triads 153 , 315 and 531 triads easier and no string skipping involved for a 153 for example. Compare the following C scale notes in standard EADG and CGDA. You can easily see open triads are there for the taking

Standard
EADG C scale notes.jpg


CGDA
CGDA C scale notes.jpg
 
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#870
Will_White said:
I play double stop seconds and thirds same as I do if I was playing a full chord, 1 X 3, I just pinch with thumb and pointer to pluck. Same as you would do octave double stops on fourths tuned bass.
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I meant the left hand. With what left hand fingering do you play a minor or major second or minor third double stop. Seems like too much a stretch without using thumb over the neck?
 
#871
Les Fret said:
I meant the left hand. With what left hand fingering do you play a minor or major second or minor third double stop. Seems like too much a stretch without using thumb over the neck?
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Like an octave double stop in fourths, root on C string then skip the G string and play the higher note on the D string, for thirds I do pointer and middle or ring, seconds I bar with the pointer or pointer on the 2 with middle on the 1
 
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#873
I am not sure if this is apocryphal or not but I believe Robert Fripp got into 5ths ( he gave up on a 5th up from E for practical reasons ie tension) because he eschewed 3rds. And it is interesting how 3rds are one of the obvious cons in 5ths tuning. But if you aren't into 3rds either, than 5ths is great. If you look at it temperament wise, on fretted instruments, thirds are a fair way off from just. Far more so than 5ths. Major thirds in ET are 14 cents sharper than just. Minor 3rds are 15 cents flatter than just. 5ths of course are only tempered flatter than just by a little under 2 cents. I'm quite into quartal and quintal harmony. I've tried all 4ths on a guitar too. Like 5ths. Pros and cons. Like any tuning
 
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#875
Will_White said:
That's not what this tuning is good for, the only way to do that comfortably is with an inversion. Someone else might have a better way.
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In fifths tuning you are going to prefer put the third below the root or play it an octave up. The advantage, to my ear, is that both of those options sound better on bass than a closed voicing - but that's just, like, my opinion, man.
 
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#876
Will_White said:
That's not what this tuning is good for, the only way to do that comfortably is with an inversion. Someone else might have a better way.
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I guess you could play the higher sounding string with your left hand thumb and the lower string with the 3rd finger or 4th finger when playing thirds and seconds double stops. I do that on upright bass also sometimes (also below thumb position)
 
#877
I've been trying to find the thing about Fripp and thirds. Particularly the Major third. I know I read it somewhere. Anyhow, Fripp is into Fibbonaci numbers and he is into Bartok who was also into the Fibbonaci sequence. And if you sequence the numbers in Fibbonaci from the the usual 0 and view the numbers as pitch class sets, there is a glaring omission. Number 4. And of course 4, as in 4 semitones is the Major 3rd interval. Maybe that influenced Fripp. This interview Fripp discusses a little about his NST tuning, which is mostly 5ths tuning. Fripp mentions that the numbers 2 4 6 8 etc are the 'Arithmetic form' and are used to form the inorganic. And the 'geometric progression' ie the Fibbonaci sequence is the form of the living and organic.
Robert Fripp on Technicality vs. Mastery | Bacon's Archive
 
#878
After a bit of looking into the various brands of flatwounds and excluding some because they don't do a preferred heavy enough gauge for C1 or I don't like what I read about them, I have settled on Rotosound RS775LD 45-130 5 string set of flatwounds. I can try CDGA or I can do standard. I have never used Rotosound strings before. If someone has tried them with 5ths tuning could they give an opinion.
 
#879
Several years now I've been thinking about a 5ths tuned bass but now that I'm actually ready to do it the string supply situation for CGDA seems pretty dismal. The closest I can come to a set that fits the sound I want are either
GHS Precision Flats
C .126
G .080
D .055
A .028
or
GHS Pressure Wounds
C .128
G .080
D .055
A .028

Neither seems like an optimal balance but it's the closest I could come up with. You think either of these will work?
 
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