Double Bass The fight against Feedback

[jj.833]

I've been using old Fishman Platinum Pre with a rock and roll band, playing small clubs, sometimes even without PA (bass going directly from combo to ca 30 people audience). My setup at the time was: Realist copperhead pickup, Fishman preamp, Markbass CMD121. The venue was usually very small, so there was not much chance to position my cab wisely.

I remember this routine:
1) lifting my combo on a chair or a box; if possible, not putting it in the corner. Never keep it on the ground.
2) finding a volume where feedback starts
3) trying whether phase switch helps; if possible, also looking for the right ange between bass body and combo. Small change sometimes mattered a lot.
4) adjust the Depth to get rid of the feedback on lows. It was a HPF. I just turned the Depth until I started to really hear its effect, then I turned it a bit back.
5) Adding lows on EQ to compensate for the lacking bottom due to HPF.
6) All this helped to add a few decibells of volume and clean up the unwanted bass rumble.
7) If more volume was needed, the only chance was to move the cab further away from the bass, and turning it away from the bass.

The result always was a bit of compromise.

Good luck!

 

[VictorW126]

So I just found a Fishman EQ Platinum preamp here on TB for a good deal. It's the old version but I wan't to see who here uses one of these or has used one in an attempt to fight feedback and what was your experience.

I've been using it for a few years and it didn't help with feedback.

 

[turf3]

Hmmm...

Well, there are a couple reasons why most of rock and roll transitioned to the solid body electric bass decades ago. And feedback when highly amplified is one of them.

 

[Slaphound]

Does the Rumble have two channels? I've found that feedback issues get better with the K&K when you split the clicky and bass signals into a separate channel for each. That way you can dial down the messy frequencies with the clicky (since it seems this may be the offending signal) and see if that helps. I do this and use the HPF built into my Clarus and it seems to work well for me.

Hey Keith. You’ve been through this, I know. The Rumble has only one. But a great suggestion. Otherwise. I have to dump the clicky and swap the KK for the Fishman. But then I won’t have a click. Idk…..

 

[Slaphound]

I'm using a similar K&K pre, the Dual Channel Pro ST, with a Vic's model C piezo system. I've been told my pre is the same unit as the Rockabilly pre with different labeling. Volume/blending knobs for each channel on the outside, EQ and gain for each channel on the inside.

Big question, do you get the feedback from the fingerboard pickup all the time, or just from certain venues?

If this feedback is just certain venues, geometry can affect a lot... Amp elevation and positioning, as mentioned by others here, might make a difference for you.

If this feedback is all the time, I'd think on your K&K pre you should be able to either dial the fingerboard volume back with the volume/blending knob or tweak the fingerboard EQ and gain inside the box to eliminate the feedback... Have you tried those already?

As mentioned I generally don't play crazy loud, but my impression from reading here is that muting down the double bass with all kinds of foam in a lot of locations is a pretty routine thing to expect to have to do at those volume levels.

Best of luck with this, please do let us know what works for you.

Oh, and don't forget your ear plugs... Save those ears for your later years! (WHAT??? )

 

[Slaphound]

I'm using a similar K&K pre, the Dual Channel Pro ST, with a Vic's model C piezo system. I've been told my pre is the same unit as the Rockabilly pre with different labeling. Volume/blending knobs for each channel on the outside, EQ and gain for each channel on the inside.

Big question, do you get the feedback from the fingerboard pickup all the time, or just from certain venues?

If this feedback is just certain venues, geometry can affect a lot... Amp elevation and positioning, as mentioned by others here, might make a difference for you.

If this feedback is all the time, I'd think on your K&K pre you should be able to either dial the fingerboard volume back with the volume/blending knob or tweak the fingerboard EQ and gain inside the box to eliminate the feedback... Have you tried those already?

As mentioned I generally don't play crazy loud, but my impression from reading here is that muting down the double bass with all kinds of foam in a lot of locations is a pretty routine thing to expect to have to do at those volume levels.

Best of luck with this, please do let us know what works for you.

Oh, and don't forget your ear plugs... Save those ears for your later years! (WHAT??? )

Thank you for your great reply. I tried using the inside EQ but I felt like I was losing volume and I could be turning the outside volume knob all the way or close to dimed. I also may have given up on it because as I think about it. I was making adjustments in the practice studio and having a different experience live. I may have jumped quickly here and should have given my equipment another nudge. I mean. I’m gonna try the Fishman pre and see. It’s too bad that having to play live doesn’t give you the opportunity to make adjustments. I’ve got that KK tied to the tail piece. I’d have to use the 5 foot stereo cable and make adjustments on the fly. No way. Maybe I’ll remove the clicky for a while and see if I can make something happen without it.

 

[Francois Blais]

Hey Keith. You’ve been through this, I know. The Rumble has only one. But a great suggestion. Otherwise. I have to dump the clicky and swap the KK for the Fishman. But then I won’t have a click. Idk…..

And/or get a pickup that's getting more string noise.
The KK Bass Max is rather dark and boomy. (at least to me)
A Fishman BP100 has a bright tone and will catch much more string noise, which may be a good substitute for a clicky, I think.
You must use a different pre than the KK with the BP100 though, it's input impedance is too low.
The Fishman pre would be great of course.
As for getting a BP100, they're not much popular anymore and we often see ones to sell for cheap on the Classifieds.
In any way, good luck!

 

[Sam Reese]

I've used all these components that you have. If I were to do it again, I'd get the best sound possible with the K&K blender; set the Fishman preamp EQ flat, Depth around 10am, Compressor set counterclockwise, set Volume fully clockwise and bring the Gain up to taste...oh, the Rumble introduces addition gain staging issues and may be "the issue" in your volumequest. I have a Rumble Stage 800 and take advantage of it's various amp models to help fight feedback when using it with my URBs. If you have an effects loop on your Fender head, try running the setup into the return jack.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Hey Keith. You’ve been through this, I know. The Rumble has only one. But a great suggestion. Otherwise. I have to dump the clicky and swap the KK for the Fishman. But then I won’t have a click. Idk…..

Sam Reese has a good comment here to EQ it out as best you can. I think that’ll do it and you can keep the clicky.

Are you running anything in the PA? Before the advent of the clicky pickup, I used to Velcro a Shure SM57 under the fingerboard and run that to the PA and still use my amp. I actually recorded a live album like that and had no feedback running loud through my SVT back in the day. It’s slap click galore when you do that and sounds great out front.

 

[Sam Reese]

@Slaphound you do know that the K&K Rockabilly preamp has Gain pots along with the EQ pots inside, right?

 

[Slaphound]

@Slaphound you do know that the K&K Rockabilly preamp has Gain pots along with the EQ pots inside, right?

Yes I know it does. I tried that too but I think I remember thinking that I had to take the gain too low to hear it good. I’m just going to try again to work the K&K. I’m probably close to fixing this problem and I just have to try again. Thanks.

 

[Don Hergert]

I'm sympathetic about the EQ and gain pots inside the K&K pre-amp being inconvenient, in fact for those pots inside I set the EQ flat and high (for headroom) and the gain at 20% and just leave them that way, relegating everything except the blending/volume knobs for adjusting at my amp or at the FOH. So the only thing I open the box for is to change batteries. And honestly, I really like the simplicity of only having volume knobs to worry about while on stage.

But that works for me because I don't play in the high volume settings where feedback is more likely. Things get a lot more complicated at high volume.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Yes I know it does. I tried that too but I think I remember thinking that I had to take the gain too low to hear it good. I’m just going to try again to work the K&K. I’m probably close to fixing this problem and I just have to try again. Thanks.

Yes. Those internal adjustment pots can make humongous changes to your tone with just a little turn of the screw. I have left mine alone and kept them at the 12 o’clock position as they were originally because of this.

 

[Meech]

Fender Rumble 115 cab, Fender rumble 500 head. K&K Rockabilly preamp and pickup system with the clicky.

***Pickups that are wedged into the bridge can vibrate and give you feed back. I had one that I had to wrap in a piece of paper to adjust the tension. Also, in Colorado I play at differing elevations and humidity. The set up would vary from 1/2 a wrap up to 2 depending on conditions.

 

[bigshiny]

I have been using the K&K RAB pick up since 1999. The trick for me was to use the internal EQ in a passive way (negative EQ). I would remove all the low end and some mids on the clicky pu. Then remove all the highs and some of the mids on the bridge pu. Run your internal gain controls at about noon. Run your external volume controls at about noon . Add EQ on the rumble till you like what you hear. But for feedback, notch filter all day long. Just my .02

 

[james condino]

Are you using you K&K bridge wing pickup on the bass side?

I find that to be too much of a good thing; an overemphasis on the bass response and correspondingly muddy, more feedback prone sound. Moving it to the treble side of the bridge gives a much more balanced sound, with less of that boomy low end that likes to feedback.

I much prefer the voice, high volume, and feedback resistance of the $45 Vic's pickup to the $130 K&K Bassmax, but I only use the single pickup bridge mount. I can't ever imagine a world where I need more clickity clickity clickity volume from an additional fingerboard mount pickup. Blending the Vic's with a KRIVO allows me to get crazy high volume approaching an Ampeg SVT refrigerator level with no feedback.