Double Bass The Kay Bass Club + Engelhardts, King & other old US made Plywood Basses.

[ChuckCorbis]

I got this from a friend. Kay O100B serial # 9115. It was solid dark green head to toe since the 60s. I stripped the paint off.

Here’s how the O-100B turned out. He put the purfling lines back on. It was solid dark green before. Looked like that green that Mercedes used in the 60s before. It was ugly. The back had water damage unfortunately. He fixed it as well as it could be. The top layer of the back was peeling. That’s apparently why they painted it. This was the house bass at the Cork
‘n Bib (jazz club of note) circa 1954 to 1966 Westbury, Long Island NY.

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[james condino]

Excellent faux purfling work. That is not an easy task to pull off clean.

From the workbench today:

1940s / '50s era Epiphone basses have a two piece neck, so when they snap it turns into 4. After gluing the parts back together, this one got a "snakebite" of two carbon fiber beams to get it back into reliable working order and is headed back out on the gig this month. This is my new go to method for broken necks; I've been doing a lot of them this year and everyone seems very happy with the results. I also have a 2.0 version for removable necks complete with anchor points that is very cool...

'Gotta' say, milling those very precise holes through a janky old multi piece 75 year old heel makes me pucker every time. I love my small model 80 year old Emmert vise for holding necks (and everything else)!

 

[james condino]

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

A little personalized art someone added to the Epiphone B model?

 

[james condino]

"A Kay, an Epiphone, and an American Standard walk into a bar together..."

 

[tornadobass]

That’s lovely. Is your bass an M-1B or a Swingmaster?

It’s an M-1B

 

[james condino]

This old 1966 Kay was broken and abandoned for 1/4 century. It got resurrected and today headed out for some fresh new gigs!

 

[james condino]

A loose soundpost patch on the back of old Kays can often be the source of frustrating vibrations that are difficult to locate. If the rattle goes away when you pinch the bass with both of your legs or press against the soundpost, check the fit first and then this little wooden disc.

 

[james condino]

Patiently moving on to the rib assembly rebuilding Mike's old family Kay. Someone else thought it would be a good idea to remove all of the inside and outside linings, causing everything to spring out of shape....

 

[puff father]

1951(?) C1, SN 26888
Found in the basement of a music store. Top was sunken under the bridge, wood screws through the top into the bass bar. Lots of scars, probably a school bass.
I had it restored but not cosmetically other than the black paint removed from the fingerboard which is walnut(?).
Sounds great and with a little fine tuning on the setup I'm looking forward to my upright adventure. Upright bass is new to me, always played bass guitars.

 

[Steven Ayres]

1951(?) C1, SN 26888

I saw that one in James Condino's shop last year. It's an example of the maple-top period for the C-1, when the specs were downgraded to cut costs amid postwar inflation. '51 is right.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Just a little Saturday morning setup work... Engelhardt EM-1 #13207 in for new strings. While here, I'll fit it with a new bridge and soundpost.

Nice shape for an almost 50 year-old bass. Well, any bass I guess. It's still with the original owner, who's cared for it well.

*my shop needs a clean-up day!

 

[The Bass Clef]

Engelhardt C-1 (c. ~1995) with some mods and repairs… Refinished, neck replaced, ebony fingerboard, and adjustable bridge. I got this bass used around the year 2000 while still a music major in college and played it in orchestra, the jazz band and other bands outside of school. I bought it for $500 from another student and he had already replaced the neck and fingerboard (don’t remember why) and refinished it. After college I played it a couple more years until the fingerboard detached itself one day, which sadly, I then put the bass in storage for the next 20 years.

Last year I decided to get it fixed and start playing it again in a classic country band I was already playing electric in. I had a local violin shop re-install the ebony fingerboard, plane it straight, and put on an adjustable bridge. I got it back with virtually unplayable action - strings were about 1/2” above the end of the board with the bridge adjusted at its lowest (even though I had asked for a low pizz setup around 4-7mm from G to E). The shop at least did a good job with the neck work, so I chose to handle the setup myself, learning as I went. I sanded over 3/8” off the top of the bridge which got the action more in the ballpark for my needs. I put some Thomastik Spiro solos on it (tuned down a step and a half to Eb standard, which is what the country band plays in), and adjusted the bridge to get my action in the 4-6mm range. I’m really happy with the setup and feel now - although I haven’t played many other uprights in the last 20 years to compare it to. I bought a Realist Lifeline pickup and play through a Fishman Platinum Pro EQ Bass preamp, into a Markbass CMD 121P combo + New York 121 cab (which I use to double with electric bass in the country band).

All in all I’m a happy camper, but even though I have this bass all dialed in, I need to go to a bass specialty shop in LA and play a few nice uprights just to see what I may (or may not be missing). I’m pretty happy with the tone. It sounds pretty ok acoustically (the spiros were a huge improvement), but I think this bass really shines amplified! No complaints there, it’s got a big thumpy tone that just sits in the mix.

 

[AGCurry]

All in all I’m a happy camper, but even though I have this bass all dialed in, I need to go to a bass specialty shop in LA and play a few nice uprights just to see what I may (or may not be missing). I’m pretty happy with the tone. It sounds pretty ok acoustically (the spiros were a huge improvement), but I think this bass really shines amplified! No complaints there, it’s got a big thumpy tone that just sits in the mix.

I had a German plywood bass for about 40 years. It was a nice bass until the fingerboard separated from the neck, at which point I let it sit for some years. The result was a warped neck.

No offense meant here ... I have a feeling you're in for a shock that you may not appreciate when you play those "nice uprights." You've gotten used to a bass with suspect repairs, probably-low overstand, with floppy strings. Those things work for you, but they're not the typical marks of nice uprights.

 

[The Bass Clef]

I had a German plywood bass for about 40 years. It was a nice bass until the fingerboard separated from the neck, at which point I let it sit for some years. The result was a warped neck.

No offense meant here ... I have a feeling you're in for a shock that you may not appreciate when you play those "nice uprights." You've gotten used to a bass with suspect repairs, probably-low overstand, with floppy strings. Those things work for you, but they're not the typical marks of nice uprights.

No offense taken at all, but why do you say the repairs are suspect? The neck and fingerboard both seem very solid and I’ve had no issues transporting the bass in the back of my pickup from cold to hot temps and low elevation to high and back on a bi-weekly basis for the last year+. I measured the overstand right at 23mm, so a tiny bit lower than an old Kay neck (which they seem to be in the 25mm-ish range from what I gather online),so it’s not terribly low. I know my strings are a bit floppier than most, but lots of people tune solos to concert pitch, and I tune this bass to concert pretty regularly when I’m learning songs off youtube, etc.. I honestly don’t feel a huge difference in floppiness at a 1/2 step lower... at least not enough to notice an affect on my playing. You may be right and I may not like the “nicer uprights” though, I dunno. But that’s why I want to check some out, so I do know.

 

[AGCurry]

No offense taken at all, but why do you say the repairs are suspect? The neck and fingerboard both seem very solid and I’ve had no issues transporting the bass in the back of my pickup from cold to hot temps and low elevation to high and back on a bi-weekly basis for the last year+. I measured the overstand right at 23mm, so a tiny bit lower than an old Kay neck (which they seem to be in the 25mm-ish range from what I gather online),so it’s not terribly low. I know my strings are a bit floppier than most, but lots of people tune solos to concert pitch, and I tune this bass to concert pretty regularly when I’m learning songs off youtube, etc.. I honestly don’t feel a huge difference in floppiness at a 1/2 step lower... at least not enough to notice an affect on my playing. You may be right and I may not like the “nicer uprights” though, I dunno. But that’s why I want to check some out, so I do know.

Engelhardts are overbuilt plywood instruments. They are MADE to be durable, as they need to be for school use.
The neck heel of your bass looks very odd to me. You wrote that the neck was replaced, so I'd be interested to know where the luthier found the neck and the techniques he used to install it. I'm not saying it's bad, just that I would be a little suspicious.
The overstand IS low. Your strings - solo strings tuned down - ARE floppy.

My point is that these things are rather opposite of "nicer uprights." We get used to an instrument, and a different instrument might struck us as odd when it's really just normal.

 

[Ed S]

Just pulled my 2010-ish Engle out to compare - that sure is a teeny little button on yours. Wonder why whoever replaced the neck went that route?

Oh yeah - the reason I pulled my Engle (w/ guts) out of the bag was for some BG recording today. Rather than the Upton hybrid w/ EPs. Many will disagree, but IMO, a dialed in Engle can be the perfect tool for certain jobs. Enjoy the heck outta yours!

And when you check out the offerings at any shops you encounter, consider the possibility of buying a quite different bass from your Engle, which you can use for different purposes, rather than simply thinking you will replace yours. IMO, 2 different and differently setup basses are quite the luxury.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Just bumping our thread...

I have retired from public service after thirty-three years (and some-odd months...) took my shingle down and went home. So I'm a part-time geetar-fixer now, and a part-time bass-player, and leaf-raker, and...

Seriously, now I get up in the morning, take the coffee and go work in my shop for a few hours, mostly fixing odd jobs that come into a couple local music stores. I do get walk-in bass work, and any basses that show up at the stores. I've been doing it for thirty years anyway, just when I had time. That's less of an issue now. I've got a few basses in the corner that have been put off until I had time to get on them. Maybe now?

An American Std. from 1946 with a destroyed neck block. A New York Epiphone B-3 with a double-dorked neck heel. (prime candidate for a pair of @james condino 's tubular carbon fiber dowels...) A very nice old carved-top flatback with a center seam fail, and another screwed-up neck. Probably more. Ain't no probably...

Hope all are well, and busy playing.

~Ed of H.

 

[Steven Ayres]

I have retired from public service after thirty-three years (and some-odd months...) took my shingle down and went home.

Congratulations! Prepare to be busier than you were when working.

Do I have your Epiphone registered?

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Congratulations! Prepare to be busier than you were when working.

Do I have your Epiphone registered?

Not sure if I ever pinged you about this one Steven, but I have mentioned it here on the thread at least once. It belongs to an old friend and mentor. B-3 #749, stamped into the underside edge of the pegbox. (on the E-string side)

Years ago the top collapsed in front of the soundpost and I fixed that. Later the neck got broken a third time, and... here she hangs, like a gym sock on a shower rod. I'll post some pics when I get into it.