I've been using 5 too. Kind of a mix between a b15 and svt. 6 is all B15, and 4 is very svt-ish...... So 5 being a cross of the two kinda makes sense. BTW and definitely OT, but the Shaw is so good!
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TI Flats vs the world...
- Thread starter Elder Rynok
- Start date
Okay, day 2, I'm definitely planning to keep the TIJFs on my Ric for now, but I am also considering throwing the other pair on my T-bird to play this weekend. I'll string it up tonight and decide from there, otherwise I'll play the Ric.
I'm going to try and describe what I want out of a string, and maybe that will lead to some suggestions.
I hate new string zing, have for years, that's the main reason I switched to flats. However over the past 3 years, I went from playing in the same group continuously to playing in a lot of groups, many sitting in the 90s punk rock -> hard rock sound. I even learned how to play with a pick just to get the tone I wanted. String wise, I want more meaty attack (not bright) plus a little thump, then plenty of sustain with a low->low-mid presence. I want it to sound meaty with a pick, not piercing. And then for it to sound smooth, but articulate with fingers.
I'm going to try and describe what I want out of a string, and maybe that will lead to some suggestions.
I hate new string zing, have for years, that's the main reason I switched to flats. However over the past 3 years, I went from playing in the same group continuously to playing in a lot of groups, many sitting in the 90s punk rock -> hard rock sound. I even learned how to play with a pick just to get the tone I wanted. String wise, I want more meaty attack (not bright) plus a little thump, then plenty of sustain with a low->low-mid presence. I want it to sound meaty with a pick, not piercing. And then for it to sound smooth, but articulate with fingers.
I'm using the light gauge in both the old and the new Blues. They feel fairly balanced to me, but tension itself rarely bothers me.... While tension is certainly a component of stiffness, overall stiffness or pliability is my biggest concern. The old Blues required only eighth turn of the rod when changing over from TIJF's (and action still ended up a touch lower), so only a bit more tension. The new Blues required a bit more than an eight turn of the rod to achieve the same action as the old that had just come off. But the new ones are nearly as flexible/pliable as TIJF's.
I don't play with a heavy touch, but I don't play with a feather-like touch either.
Thanks for the perspective on that. I've only played a B-15 once and I'm not sure that I've ever plugged into a classic, all-tube SVT (though I've heard them plenty). Next time I play through the amp, I'll listen to those settings with that in mind.
I want all of what I want and nothing I don't.
Okay, bearing in mind that they're still very early in the break-in, how much of that are you getting with the TIs? Where, if anywhere, are they falling short?Aside from the break-in, two things to keep in mind: 1) You may need to re-calibrate some amp and effects settings to get things where you want. 2) You will need to recalibrate your technique a bit with the TIs vs. most strings. If you try to dig in too hard (per your earlier comment about the A-string, but I find that it holds in general), they're just going to go "splat". You'll just have to play around and see how they respond.
That said, looking at the tension figures for the Tis (A at ~31 pounds, with the E, D, and G at roughly 34 to 37 pounds), I do wish that the A had a little more tension (remember, I like balanced sets) and, if I stop and check for that, I can feel some difference between the A and the others, but it's still a lot better balanced than many off-the-shelf sets and I haven't found it a problem to play on the Brute or on the fretless five. I do wonder why TI made it that way -- and maybe I'll write them a short email to ask. Perhaps making an A-string that was more balanced in tension with the others resulted in a string that was less balanced sonically. I dunno.
Anyway, if the strings are working well enough for you that you're reasonably happy at gigs, I'd give them a little time to break-in and yourself a little time to adapt. You'll be able to make a more informed comparison, then, if/when you try other strings. (Of course, I say this having often demonstrated little patience, myself, for stuff like that!)
Good luck -- try to enjoy the process!
I'm going to guess intonation.
One thing i noticed after changing to tge jazz flats. The bridge is almost straight across whereas all previous strings ive tried had an obvious diagonal line going across the bridge. With some even being irregular.
One thing i noticed after changing to tge jazz flats. The bridge is almost straight across whereas all previous strings ive tried had an obvious diagonal line going across the bridge. With some even being irregular.
I wasn't specifically looking for it, but I came across a video from five (!) years ago of me playing the Brute with the TI flats. Didn't realize I'd had the bass that long. I'll have to pull the bass out and listen -- and there's a limited amount that you can tell from a phone video -- but I do believe that the strings sound pretty similar today to the way they did five years ago.
To be fair, the Brute, though I like it, doesn't get nearly as much play as my main bass (a Japanese Fender with rounds), but five years (and still in good shape) still seems all right.
To be fair, the Brute, though I like it, doesn't get nearly as much play as my main bass (a Japanese Fender with rounds), but five years (and still in good shape) still seems all right.
Right now, the TIJFs are mostly fitting the bill. But they haven't settled in supposedly, so who knows. Not to mention even if I like them, I still want to try others, as maybe I'll find something I like better or similarly for not as much. I think my biggest issue, is that the TIJFs were so bad on my Bullet bass, but they sure do make my Thunderbird sound amazing. Haven't tried them on the p-bass. The Ric sounds good. Still trying to find the best string for the Bullet bass.Thanks for the perspective on that. I've only played a B-15 once and I'm not sure that I've ever plugged into a classic, all-tube SVT (though I've heard them plenty). Next time I play through the amp, I'll listen to those settings with that in mind.
I want all of what I want and nothing I don't.
Aside from the break-in, two things to keep in mind: 1) You may need to re-calibrate some amp and effects settings to get things where you want. 2) You will need to recalibrate your technique a bit with the TIs vs. most strings. If you try to dig in too hard (per your earlier comment about the A-string, but I find that it holds in general), they're just going to go "splat". You'll just have to play around and see how they respond.
That said, looking at the tension figures for the Tis (A at ~31 pounds, with the E, D, and G at roughly 34 to 37 pounds), I do wish that the A had a little more tension (remember, I like balanced sets) and, if I stop and check for that, I can feel some difference between the A and the others, but it's still a lot better balanced than many off-the-shelf sets and I haven't found it a problem to play on the Brute or on the fretless five. I do wonder why TI made it that way -- and maybe I'll write them a short email to ask. Perhaps making an A-string that was more balanced in tension with the others resulted in a string that was less balanced sonically. I dunno.
Anyway, if the strings are working well enough for you that you're reasonably happy at gigs, I'd give them a little time to break-in and yourself a little time to adapt. You'll be able to make a more informed comparison, then, if/when you try other strings. (Of course, I say this having often demonstrated little patience, myself, for stuff like that!)
Good luck -- try to enjoy the process!
For some reason, I wouldn't have thought to put the TIs on a Thunderbird, but it's cool to hear that they're working well on that.
Is the Bullet a 30" scale, or a 34" scale?
Bullet Deluxe 34". It's got a really awesome compressed P tone, but I can not find the right string for that bass.
Feel-wise, sound-wise, or both? Can you be specific with how different strings have fallen short on the Bullet?
On the bright side, it sounds like you're doing well to very well with two out of three basses. That's not bad progress in the string search game!
Small update: This thread influenced me to take the Brute (with its TI Flats) out tonight, instead of my usual Fender with rounds. This was a quieter deal, relatively speaking -- some vox (two and three part harmonies), amplified acoustic guitars, and banjo at an out-of-the-way tavern jam. Tiny rig (1x10" + Kustom KXB 500 on "2"). Cab tilted up on a wedge. No bass in the PA and no need.
The strings still have plenty of life. They were nicely present in the mix (I even dialed down the treble a hair at the amp). Ran the bass passive, rolled toward the neck pickup, and could get everything from mudbucker-type organ tones to some plucky, middy burp just with right hand placement and attack -- I could come forward and back in the mix a good deal just with right hand technique. Chords were nice. Got "under the note" a little more than with rounds -- each note had a nice "kick" and a bit of percussive thump if I wanted it -- but not as much as with some of the thumpier flats.
Got compliments on the tone (and at one point, one of the guitarists asked to do a couple of tunes with just me accompanying him, so I guess he liked it all right); pleasant and effective overall. I'll give them a 9/10 on this outing.
I'll have to take the Brute out some more. My Fender is my first love and my main squeeze, but I liked playing this little bass again and the strings seem to suit it well.
The strings still have plenty of life. They were nicely present in the mix (I even dialed down the treble a hair at the amp). Ran the bass passive, rolled toward the neck pickup, and could get everything from mudbucker-type organ tones to some plucky, middy burp just with right hand placement and attack -- I could come forward and back in the mix a good deal just with right hand technique. Chords were nice. Got "under the note" a little more than with rounds -- each note had a nice "kick" and a bit of percussive thump if I wanted it -- but not as much as with some of the thumpier flats.
Got compliments on the tone (and at one point, one of the guitarists asked to do a couple of tunes with just me accompanying him, so I guess he liked it all right); pleasant and effective overall. I'll give them a 9/10 on this outing.
I'll have to take the Brute out some more. My Fender is my first love and my main squeeze, but I liked playing this little bass again and the strings seem to suit it well.
Okay, time for my 1 week assessment on TIs vs the world... I ended up with 3 different strings on 3 basses, and 1 bass with 3 strings being swapped out.
Pressurewounds:
These ended up being on my P-bass. I love the growl and the power, but they are zingy. A little too zingy right now. Last night I played for a church with a new sound guy who's "going to school for it" that put a LPF halfway through the set at around 400Hz, I'm guessing. He obviously thought it was too zingy and over-reacted, but there are too many times I'm playing a bar, club or church with a not good sound guy, I like my tone to be more sculpted out of the box. He ended up fixing it and apologizing after the set, but there were 5 songs were my tone was so dark you'd think I was about to play in a goth band. I'm sure with time they will break-in, but part of the reason I switch to flats 10 years ago was because I hated the break-in period. My fingers do not seem to produce enough grease, and even if I play 1 bass only, it takes over a month to get rid of the roundwound zing. They were also on my Ric for a recording session, and the guys loved it, so there's that. Maybe P-bass+PW doesn't work for my style. I may carry these for recording sessions that want a RW sound, but I likely won't keep them on anything.
Rotosound 77:
These got put on my backup bass, the Bullet Bass. It hasn't gotten played enough. I like the tone, but there are a lot of people on TalkBass who say when they break-in they go dead very quickly. That worries me. I think I may swap for Cobalts, but I was also thinking of swapping for Cobalts on the P. What is funny is how roundish 77s are described, and I put them on my brightest bass, and they still didn't zing as much as the Pressurewounds on the P.
TI Jazz Flats:
These were put on my Thunderbird and Rickenbacker, but the Thunderbird ended up getting used on all 3 weekend gigs. All I can say OMG, OMG, OMG I'm in love, at least on this bass. The Thunderbird has so much low end, that it has a tendency to be muddy in smaller gigs where I can't run my Super Bassman hot enough, or I'm in the PA. However, I think the TIs helped to taim the beast, because all 3 gigs were ampless with poor sound engineering and way too much low end, but the mid-range attack of the TIs were clear, articulate and perfect. They loved my tone so much, it was insane.
My Rickenbacker:
This bass is what I'm usually known for in this area. I love this bass, and I make it sound good in all styles, usually thanks to a set of flats to get a low-end thump, while the bass has such a mid-focused growl. Seems TIs might be adding too much of a good thing. This bass got strung up with TIs, Cobalt and Pressurewounds. The Pressurewounds were used on a recording that called for Roundwounds, and the 2 studio guys were in love. I brought My usual 66s as backups, but they were unneeded. I'm sure 1 day, somebody's gonna tell me they aren't good enough. The week prior I had them strung with Cobalts to record 1 song, and to play for a more well put together church. I was told my tone was "on-point" for both the recording and the church gig. I think the Cobalts might be the answer, to a pre-sculpted tone going into a bad sound situation. I'm just wondering how they are going to age now.
My next string to try:
The Brite Flats are at the top of my list. I'm very curious about this string, but man it and the Pressurewounds are the hardest string to get my hands on. Ordering straight from GHS seems to be my quickest option. BSO takes a little too long sometimes.
Pressurewounds:
These ended up being on my P-bass. I love the growl and the power, but they are zingy. A little too zingy right now. Last night I played for a church with a new sound guy who's "going to school for it" that put a LPF halfway through the set at around 400Hz, I'm guessing. He obviously thought it was too zingy and over-reacted, but there are too many times I'm playing a bar, club or church with a not good sound guy, I like my tone to be more sculpted out of the box. He ended up fixing it and apologizing after the set, but there were 5 songs were my tone was so dark you'd think I was about to play in a goth band. I'm sure with time they will break-in, but part of the reason I switch to flats 10 years ago was because I hated the break-in period. My fingers do not seem to produce enough grease, and even if I play 1 bass only, it takes over a month to get rid of the roundwound zing. They were also on my Ric for a recording session, and the guys loved it, so there's that. Maybe P-bass+PW doesn't work for my style. I may carry these for recording sessions that want a RW sound, but I likely won't keep them on anything.
Rotosound 77:
These got put on my backup bass, the Bullet Bass. It hasn't gotten played enough. I like the tone, but there are a lot of people on TalkBass who say when they break-in they go dead very quickly. That worries me. I think I may swap for Cobalts, but I was also thinking of swapping for Cobalts on the P. What is funny is how roundish 77s are described, and I put them on my brightest bass, and they still didn't zing as much as the Pressurewounds on the P.
TI Jazz Flats:
These were put on my Thunderbird and Rickenbacker, but the Thunderbird ended up getting used on all 3 weekend gigs. All I can say OMG, OMG, OMG I'm in love, at least on this bass. The Thunderbird has so much low end, that it has a tendency to be muddy in smaller gigs where I can't run my Super Bassman hot enough, or I'm in the PA. However, I think the TIs helped to taim the beast, because all 3 gigs were ampless with poor sound engineering and way too much low end, but the mid-range attack of the TIs were clear, articulate and perfect. They loved my tone so much, it was insane.
My Rickenbacker:
This bass is what I'm usually known for in this area. I love this bass, and I make it sound good in all styles, usually thanks to a set of flats to get a low-end thump, while the bass has such a mid-focused growl. Seems TIs might be adding too much of a good thing. This bass got strung up with TIs, Cobalt and Pressurewounds. The Pressurewounds were used on a recording that called for Roundwounds, and the 2 studio guys were in love. I brought My usual 66s as backups, but they were unneeded. I'm sure 1 day, somebody's gonna tell me they aren't good enough. The week prior I had them strung with Cobalts to record 1 song, and to play for a more well put together church. I was told my tone was "on-point" for both the recording and the church gig. I think the Cobalts might be the answer, to a pre-sculpted tone going into a bad sound situation. I'm just wondering how they are going to age now.
My next string to try:
The Brite Flats are at the top of my list. I'm very curious about this string, but man it and the Pressurewounds are the hardest string to get my hands on. Ordering straight from GHS seems to be my quickest option. BSO takes a little too long sometimes.
Thanks for posting this. Sounds like you're making good progress -- both in learning what works for you and your instruments and in getting them matched up with strings that compliment them.
Sounds like the TIs might be the strings for your T-bird (hard to top three OMGs and they loved my tone so much it was insane). Interesting, too, the yin-yang you describe with that bass and the TIs, with the strings bringing forward the mids and bringing the sometimes boomy low end under control -- like an acoustic EQ. Sounds like they might not be the best string (yang-yang) for your Ric...
The Pressurewound strings sound interesting -- to be clear, are these the GHS Pressurewounds?
As far as "not enough grease" and string break-in, I don't know about that one way or the other, but it does seem that some people's sweat breaks strings down much faster than others'. My hands don't sweat much and whatever's in my sweat must not disagree too terribly with strings, as most last a long time for me. There might be a bright side to your low-fat, long-break-in personal chemistry!
Okay, I was dumb, I knew I didn't like the TIs on my Ric, but I played them anyways earlier tonight. Figured I wouldn't know for sure until I tried in a band mix. I don't care how they age, they are coming off my Ric tomorrow morning. Goodnight.
Not dumb. Now you know. No regrets.
Edit: If you'd add "Gracie" to the end of your post, I think it would flow better, somehow.
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You're a couple of decades off, but I'm an old soul... I think.You have to be at least 60 years old to understand this.
Thanks for noticing, though.
Shouldn't I be the one telling you to say goodnight, Gracie?
No not dumb, but it sure distracted me and made it hard to get into the music. I feel like my stage presence suffered, which is important around here.