Tips on Transposing on the Fly?

organworthyplayer337

organworthyplayer337

Professional Hack
Oct 28, 2014
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#1
So The band I'm playing are all extremely experienced musicians. Last night during rehearsal, last minute, they switched a song from F to E. I managed (fairly) but I was thrown off because I've practiced the song in F for a while.

Are there any tips for transposing in the fly?



*Disclaimer* I'm young, I jus wanna learn :rolleyes:
 
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#3
organworthyplayer337 said:
So The band I'm playing are all extremely experienced musicians. Last night during rehearsal, last minute, they switched a song from F to E. I managed (fairly) but I was thrown off because I've practiced the song in F for a while. Are there any tips for transposing in the fly? *Disclaimer* I'm young, I jus wanna learn :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
To answer your question we need to understand how you look upon scales, chords, arpeggios. etc. When I think of a scale I think in A, B, C's and 1, 2, 3's. For example:
Let's use the G scale. OK the G scale has one sharp, namely the F# so we are looking at these notes............................................G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G
It's scale degree numbers are......... 1,. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,. 7,.. 8

I use the major scale box pattern for everything I do.
Major scale box showing scale degree numbers.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string​
And I play from fake chord sheet music transposed to Nashville numbers. So to move on the fly from F to E is not a big deal. Instead of me using my Major scale box with the "R" root note placed on the 4th string first fret, which is an F note -- I just move my box to the 4th string 12th fret as that is an E note. Probably should have a fretboard chart about here as there is an E @ the 3rd string 7th fret you could use.
upload_2014-8-24_6-54-41-png.png


But to know all that I had to spend a lot of time with my major scale box. Running it up and down my fretboard till I could do any key in my sleep. Here is the box again:

Major scale box showing scale degree numbers.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
​
Want the G major scale. Put the box's R on the G at the 4th string 3rd fret and all the G major scale notes await me in the box. Notice the F# is with in the box's pattern. As chords are made from a scale all seven of the chord's root notes await me within the box. On top of that If you think of chords having R-3-5-7 or R-3-5-b7 notes, help yourself they two are inside the box waiting on you.

Yep I think in A, B, C's to know where to place my box and then from there I think in scale degree numbers, aka 1, 2, 3's.

As Nashville numbers are the same as the scale degree numbers - Nashville numbers are in 1, 2, 3's. Yep I transpose my fake chord A, B, C's over to 1, 2, 3's. If the chords used are in the key of C I mark through all the C's with a 1. All the F's with a 4 and the G with a 5. Takes about two minutes to transpose a sheet of fake chord over to Nashville numbers. As the box is a major scale box if your song is in a minor key you transpose to the relative minor.

Yes I know you are saying, but, I'd like to add more than just the root. Fine where is the 5? From the root a 5 is always up a string and over two frets, or just below the root on the next string down. Some thing you can work on in your spare time... where can I find the 3? It going to be up a string and back a fret from your root note. How about a flat 3 or b3? Yes some things to work on...

So when the vocalist wants the song in something other than what our sheet music has, it's not a big deal, I just move my box, and ever thing I need awaits me within the box.

Ask specific questions....
 
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#7
Good suggestions ... I'm one who thinks in intervals rather than absolute notes when learning songs. I often play the same song with different bands, in different keys. I also tend to think in "patterns" (I think what Malcom refers to as "the box") rather than notes for that reason, and when I can I opt for fretted notes rather than open strings to keep the pattern movable.
 
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#9
Like others have mentioned, I also avoid open strings, which is a big help. And like others, I think in intervals instead of note names. My brain isn't fast enough to transpose note for note, but the relative intervals are fairly well ingrained.

Lastly, I don't look at my hand much when playing. I rely on a mental map rather than looking at my fingers, so shifting my hand, I can just think about the intervals and play the notes.

It also helps, I think, to practice a given song in a different key. If you can find a song that is fairly popular, you'll often find variations of it in different keys by different bands. Or you can use software to shift the pitches, if you like. You don't have to do this with every song, but working on a handful over time can still help with transposition skills, generally. This assumes that you're thinking about the intervals rather than just learning a different pattern for putting your fingers on the fretboard.

None of these things provide a quick and easy way to do it. They're based on skills that come from practice and playing. But hopefully they help you to point you in the right direction. :)
 
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#11
seanm said:
When I had to transpose a lot, I stayed away from open strings like the plague. F is a strange key. I basically find that guitar players can't play flat keys.
Click to expand...
Yep, if the song is in F or any of the other flat keys - out come the capos. Don't ever ask anyone that is using a capo what key the song is in. You'll get all kinds of answers, most of which are wrong. Your keyboard knows, when ever I need to know the key I should use I ask the keyboard player.

If no keyboard player I ask what fret they are capoed on and what I (tonic) chord are they using. From that I look at my handy dandy capo chart that is glued to the top of my amp to know what key I should use.

capo-chart-landscape-1-300x100.png
 
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#12
organworthyplayer337 said:
So The band I'm playing are all extremely experienced musicians. Last night during rehearsal, last minute, they switched a song from F to E. I managed (fairly) but I was thrown off because I've practiced the song in F for a while.

Are there any tips for transposing in the fly?



*Disclaimer* I'm young, I jus wanna learn :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


You mean, which of these extremely experienced musicians should You "pimp slap" first?

Usually we start with the drummers, but that's a given, plus I gave you a hint, I said "musician".
 
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#13
Intervals all the way. When you learn a song, learn the notes names, and learn the interval numbers.
How you apply the system is down to you, but try and work with in the given key and transpose to the new key.

So simple 50s progression of G - Em - C - D for example is, I VI IV V, i use Roman Numerals so as not to confuse them with chord extensions.
So in G that is the one, the minor 6, the four and the five of the key of G.

Now move that to say F and the intervals are still I Vi IV V but now the notes are F - Dm - Bb - C
Now move to say Eb and the intervals are the same, but now the notes are Eb - C - Ab - Bb.

This is basic stuff for sure but it introduces you to the idea of transposing.
learn it with pen and paper, then apply it to the instrument.
Different instruments need different skills to play them, so from Piano to Flute to Trombone, a player must develop the knowledge of where to "find" the notes, so it goes without saying that your fingerboard knowledge needs to be up with it, but on paper all instruments are the same [within there clefs of course] so learn with pen and paper then apply what you learn.

Only through practice will you develop the skill, only through use will you retain it, so when you lean a song...learn it in a few keys, you will be surprised how well this will hold you up in the future
 
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#15
Fergie Fulton said:
So simple 50s progression of G - Em - C - D for example is, I VI IV V, i use Roman Numerals so as not to confuse them with chord extensions.
So in G that is the one, the minor 6, the four and the five of the key of G.

Now move that to say F and the intervals are still I Vi IV V but now the notes are F - Dm - Bb - C
Now move to say Eb and the intervals are the same, but now the notes are Eb - C - Ab - Bb.
Click to expand...

This.
 
#16
MalcolmAmos said:
To answer your question we need to understand how you look upon scales, chords, arpeggios. etc. When I think of a scale I think in A, B, C's and 1, 2, 3's. For example:
Let's use the G scale. OK the G scale has one sharp, namely the F# so we are looking at these notes............................................G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G
It's scale degree numbers are......... 1,. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,. 7,.. 8

I use the major scale box pattern for everything I do.
Major scale box showing scale degree numbers.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string​
And I play from fake chord sheet music transposed to Nashville numbers. So to move on the fly from F to E is not a big deal. Instead of me using my Major scale box with the "R" root note placed on the 4th string first fret, which is an F note -- I just move my box to the 4th string 12th fret as that is an E note. Probably should have a fretboard chart about here as there is an E @ the 3rd string 7th fret you could use.
upload_2014-8-24_6-54-41-png.png


But to know all that I had to spend a lot of time with my major scale box. Running it up and down my fretboard till I could do any key in my sleep. Here is the box again:

Major scale box showing scale degree numbers.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
​
Want the G major scale. Put the box's R on the G at the 4th string 3rd fret and all the G major scale notes await me in the box. Notice the F# is with in the box's pattern. As chords are made from a scale all seven of the chord's root notes await me within the box. On top of that If you think of chords having R-3-5-7 or R-3-5-b7 notes, help yourself they two are inside the box waiting on you.

Yep I think in A, B, C's to know where to place my box and then from there I think in scale degree numbers, aka 1, 2, 3's.

As Nashville numbers are the same as the scale degree numbers - Nashville numbers are in 1, 2, 3's. Yep I transpose my fake chord A, B, C's over to 1, 2, 3's. If the chords used are in the key of C I mark through all the C's with a 1. All the F's with a 4 and the G with a 5. Takes about two minutes to transpose a sheet of fake chord over to Nashville numbers. As the box is a major scale box if your song is in a minor key you transpose to the relative minor.

Yes I know you are saying, but, I'd like to add more than just the root. Fine where is the 5? From the root a 5 is always up a string and over two frets, or just below the 5 on the next string down. Some thing you can work on in your spare time... where can I find the 3? It going to be up a string and back a fret from your root note. How about a flat 3 or b3? Yes some things to work on...

So when the vocalist wants the song in something other than what our sheet music has, it's not a big deal, I just move my box, and ever thing I need awaits me within the box.

Ask specific questions....
Click to expand...
With my limited knowledge; that was about as specific as a question I could ask :D

Thanks for all the info, though!
 
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#17
seanm said:
When I had to transpose a lot, I stayed away from open strings like the plague.

F is a strange key. I basically find that guitar players can't play flat keys.
Click to expand...

I used to avoid open strings, but then I got an upright. That forced me to use open strings. Playing jazz with horns, I learned to play in Bb and F.

OP, It sounds like you're playing with some good musicians! Transposing on the fly can be painful, but it's good for you.
 
#18
i've been a musician for (going on) 60 years: started with piano and then on to woodwinds: started bass in my mid 20's = i don't i use any specific 'conceptual' method exclusively, or even consistently. trying to think about it: i'm using some amalgam of several/all of the above posts, somewhat 'reflexively' when trasposing on the fly. i'm sure that it helps that i have lots of experience writing and arranging for horns. somewhere along the line it has become a 'second nature' for me to transpose....

so i offer you this (not a quick fix, sorry!): time and practice are on your side. and: use several ideas (as posted above). use methods that work for you 'quickly', and explore the others to be well versed and prepared. it seems, maybe, like a pain in the a$$, but in the long run = you and your fellow musicians will have more options, more fun, and more music available! :thumbsup:
 
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#19
I'm not a theory guy... I use my imaginary capo... I think this may mean I'm using intervals but don't know my theory well enough to know whether or not to call it that... probably wouldn't hold up if I joined a jazz group but than neither would my playing :)
 
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