to be line, or unlined...

[john turner]

that's a great point pk2 - i practice my fretless extensively to a tuner. a pro player friend of mine (packard, you out there?) helped me record one time, a fairly busy passage of 8th notes that extended for a few verses, and he was surprised, since all i played to was click and drums, and yet, after we recorded the passage, we looked at it with a good tuner, note by note, and it was pretty much in. i actually think it's easier to play that way than with other instruments - easier to hear one's self.

intonation can be learned, and highly polished, just like any other skill. i've found that playing fretted instruments to tuners shows many intonation inconsistencies there as well, and they are harder to control - the pressure that is applied to the note can pull it 5 or 10 cents sharp easily if one isn't careful. it's possible to actually be BETTER intonated with a fretless than with a fretted, it's difficult, but it is possible.

 

[Craig Garfinkel]

Bingo pkr2...great points made by all here though. No matter how you look at it (no pun intended) playing the fretless bass is an acquired skill that definitely demands from the player the ability to hear intonation problems in order to effectively fix them. For that matter, fretted players need to have the ability to hear their own basses when they (inevitably) go out of tune. The first accessory any player should buy is a good electronic tuner (in my opinion the Boss footpedal strobe tuner is the best $100 you can possibly spend). My ears are pretty darn good, but I check my tuning religuosly throughout a gig.

Interesting that Jaco is brought up again. I need to review his instructional video, you know the one where he is interviewed by Jerry Jemmott and plays at the end with Kenwood Dennard and John Scofield? If my memory serves me correctly, Jerry asks him about playing fretless (in the video Jaco has a fretted maple board P-Bass neck temporarily attached to his bass while the main neck is being repaired), and I believe Jaco talks about how difficult it is to play fretless, and how he needs to keep his chops up in order to maintain his proficiancy. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

A couple other observations re: Jaco. Check out some of the videos of his live performances. Note how he tunes his basses while he's performing. Jaco had monster ears, certainly perfect relative pitch if not perfect pitch and he would recognize immediately when the bass itself went out of tune, obviously relying on open string pitches as well as the muscle memory in his left hand. Roscoe Beck tells the story of Jaco showing up at a gig of his during the Weather Report hey-day, and when Jaco accepted his invitation to sit in, he passed on Roscoe's unlined fretless and opted for the fretted bass instead. Jaco also used a nearly identical fretted Jazz Bass a fair amount of the time on live performances with W.R., and after "THE" bass was stolen (while it lay next to him as he was passed out in Washington Square Park) he played whatever bass he could borrow.

 

[surf-bass]

Here's a bit of honesty. Something I have figured out in the recent past, just before opting to buy my fretless bass unlined. Maybe Jaco, Tony Levin, Who-ever plays a lined fretless bass- so what. Plain and simple it comes down to this, when you see a great bassist playing live, either with a fretted or fretless bass, he isn't looking at the neck of his instrument, if he is, he just doesn't look like a good bassist to the crowd. Buy whichever you want, but learn to play with your ear, 'cause poor stage lighting, slight changes in string tension from hot lights, and playing for a crowd all boil down to the same thing, you have to intone your notes corectly. Lines help a little if you look at them, but they won't always be right on and you can't always look at them. The ear is it- if it wasn't, we'd see lined upright basses, and cellos, violas, violins........

 

[gruffpuppy]

wow what a subject.
has anyone read the book effortless mastery?
some of the replys made me laugh
"don't get lined because it doesn't look as good"
"if you have to look at the lines it will annoy the audience"
give me a break play music for yourself and no one else
if you play fretted and you feel better with the lines go for it. i play both, after a while your ears will get in tune and you won't have to look at the lines
and if ten years go bye and you still have to look at the lines
well i am not going to know about it

 

[surf-bass]

Man, you people are worse than journalists!! If you refer to my previous post, you will see that I did not say looking at the lines will annoy an audience. What I said is that if you play through a whole show with your eyes glued to the neck of your bass, whether it has frets or not, the audience will think you aren't much of a bassist. Part of being in a band is putting on a show when you play out; musicians are, after all, entertainers.

Secondly, I hate when people say stuff like "play only for yourself, and forget about the crowd." As a working bassist, who would like to remain working, I know that people who play "just for themselves" usually end up playing by themselves, in their basement, bedroom, etc. Being a musician is being an entertainer, and that means playing music that you like to play, yes, but it also means giving the crowd a show for their ticket price. If you don't, they won't keep paying to see a bunch of guys stand around and play- it gets boring. If it weren't true, people like Mick Jagger, David Lee Roth, or David Bowie would never have made it like they did; they put on a show. That isn't even mentioning N'Sync, Back Street Boys, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears...... The list goes on and on. These people aren't really good musicians, but they sell out shows because they go out there, shake their asses, dance around, get the crowd fired up, and deliver a show. They ENTERTAIN!!

Sure get whichever bass you feel good about, but get your ear developed so that when you hit the stage, you can hit your notes clean (the real priority) AND somehow mange to look cool.

 

[Steve Lawson]

Originally posted by surf-bass
Secondly, I hate when people say stuff like "play only for yourself, and forget about the crowd." As a working bassist, who would like to remain working, I know that people who play "just for themselves" usually end up playing by themselves, in their basement, bedroom, etc. Being a musician is being an entertainer, and that means playing music that you like to play, yes, but it also means giving the crowd a show for their ticket price. If you don't, they won't keep paying to see a bunch of guys stand around and play- it gets boring. If it weren't true, people like Mick Jagger, David Lee Roth, or David Bowie would never have made it like they did; they put on a show. That isn't even mentioning N'Sync, Back Street Boys, Janet Jackson, Britney Spears...... The list goes on and on. These people aren't really good musicians, but they sell out shows because they go out there, shake their asses, dance around, get the crowd fired up, and deliver a show. They ENTERTAIN!!

Boy, if I started jumping around and 'shaking my ass' in one of my solo gigs, it'd scare the bejesus out of the audience!!! LOL

fret-lines, no-fret-lines? Can anyone tell from the recording? If it sounds good it is good - I've got lines on all three of my fretlesses, and can't really imagine getting an unlined one, but love watching and listening to Michael Manring and Alain Caron play theirs...

No big deal - if looking at lines keeps you in tune, use 'em. If it distracts you, ditch 'em...

Steve
http://www.steve-lawson.co.uk