Double Bass Trace Elliot ELF 1x10 impressions

[Ric Vice]

Actually, my new powered MAS 1/8 has a pole mount, so...... I'm going to give it a try at a concert I'm playing later this month. I'm running a Mirecourt 5/8 bass, Ehrlund EAP>Grace Designs Felix>Powered MAS 1/8 v2. They all play nice with each other. The newer speaker designs

like the MAS and Double Shot don't seem to mind being elevated nearly as much as the older rear ported or transmission line cabinets did. Only time will tell.

 

[themickster]

The Elf's low headroom with 130w @ 8ohms is why I went with the 300w Markbass 121P for the same cost but twice the weight.

 

[Ric Vice]

The Elf's low headroom with 130w @ 8ohms is why I went with the 300w Markbass 121P for the same cost but twice the weight.

I had the same experience, when I purchased a TC Electronics Bam 200. The EQ section was ideal for Double Bass, but it was just missing the headroom I'd need for anything above trio. Just my experience of course.

 

[themickster]

TE would do well to make a bigger head to make more of the 400w 8ohm 2x8. The speaker is wasted on the Elf head.

 

[Ric Vice]

Their BQ 500 is 500 watt head but it's a EQ section is a bit different than The BAM 200. IME some of the EQ controls don't favor Double Bass like the BAM 200 does. Just my take though.

 

[BobbyT]

I just had the opportunity to A/B two cabinets, one of which was the ELF 1x10 (the other was the Upshot)...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these. I am looking to add another cabinet in the 16 lb. range as well. I have a GK 112MBX (extension for the old micro-bass line), and I am wondering if one of these, either the ELF or the AI, would be an upgrade.

I love the GK for portability at 16 lbs., but being a small sealed aluminum box, it is all midrange without much low or high frequency response.

Can anyone with experience using the small GK combos or extension speakers compare them to these newer generation cabinets from Trace, AI, etc.?

 

[Ric Vice]

I've owned several GK Combo Amplifiers and Speaker Cabinets. I've demoed the AI amplifiers and the Trace Eliot Elf. I owned one of the powered extensions for the 200MB while it worked just fine with connected to the 200MB. It didn't sound

that great being driven by the preamp on my Walter Woods MI-100-8. IMHO GK extension cabinets, don't sound that great with other amps, but the Trace Eliot could be an exception. IME since you cannot completely turn off the compressor/limiter (it's tied to the gain control)

it will always have that midrange that's really nice for EB but not ideal for DB. Playing the Elf through their 1X10 it just wasn't the sound I'm looking for, but some TB er's really like it. The AI Double Shot is incredible, but it's more expensive. Just my take.

 

[Wasnex]

I've owned several GK Combo Amplifiers and Speaker Cabinets. I've demoed the AI amplifiers and the Trace Eliot Elf. I owned one of the powered extensions for the 200MB while it worked just fine with connected to the 200MB. It didn't sound

that great being driven by the preamp on my Walter Woods MI-100-8. IMHO GK extension cabinets, don't sound that great with other amps, but the Trace Eliot could be an exception. IME since you cannot completely turn off the compressor/limiter (it's tied to the gain control)

it will always have that midrange that's really nice for EB but not ideal for DB. Playing the Elf through their 1X10 it just wasn't the sound I'm looking for, but some TB er's really like it. The AI Double Shot is incredible, but it's more expensive. Just my take.

Trace Elliot ELF Compressor?
Not sure if you ever really dug into how the compressor works...or how to setup the ELF so it does not compress.

You are correct that the compressor is after the Gain control. Per the manual, the compressor is also after the tone controls. So if you crank up the Gain, and/or crank up the tone controls you get compression. But the ELF also has a (master) Volume control, which is after the compressor circuit. If you don't want compression turn the Volume up and turn the Gain down...at least that's how it's explained in the manual.

Another Factor:
The ELF also has a limiter that is placed after the Volume control, and with such a modest amount of power you might wind up hitting the limiter fairly often, especially if you are running speaker with a relatively low sensitivity rating. The ELF is only rated for 130W at 8 ohms and 200W at 4 ohms, and that is not a lot of power IMHO.

The AI Double shot is rated for 600W Max and 118dB Max SPL. The decibel change from 1-600W is 27.8dB. So subtracting this from 118 will give our 1W sensitivity rating. 118-27.8= 90.2db 1W/1m at 4 ohms.

The ELF makes 200W at 4 ohms. Decibel change from 1-200W = 23dB. 90.2+23dB=113.2dB. This is not going to be loud enough for many situations.

 

[BobbyT]

Trace Elliot ELF Compressor?
Not sure if you ever really dug into how the compressor works...or how to setup the ELF so it does not compress.

You are correct that the compressor is after the Gain control. Per the manual, the compressor is also after the tone controls. So if you crank up the Gain, and/or crank up the tone controls you get compression. But the ELF also has a (master) Volume control, which is after the compressor circuit. If you don't want compression turn the Volume up and turn the Gain down...at least that's how it's explained in the manual.

Another Factor:
The ELF also has a limiter that is placed after the Volume control, and with such a modest amount of power you might wind up hitting the limiter fairly often, especially if you are running speaker with a relatively low sensitivity rating. The ELF is only rated for 130W at 8 ohms and 200W at 4 ohms, and that is not a lot of power IMHO.

The AI Double shot is rated for 600W Max and 118dB Max SPL. The decibel change from 1-600W is 27.8dB. So subtracting this from 118 will give our 1W sensitivity rating. 118-27.8= 90.2db 1W/1m at 4 ohms.

The ELF makes 200W at 4 ohms. Decibel change from 1-200W = 23dB. 90.2+23dB=113.2dB. This is not going to be loud enough for many situations.

In my experience, the ELF head’s built-in compressor is just too extreme. In theory you should be able to control it like you are saying, but I was never able to get a usable sound out of that amp and I think the compressor was one of the main reasons why it didn’t work for me.

The reason I brought up the GK 112MBX is that it’s similar in size and weight to the two cabs in the original post, the ELF 110 and the AI Upshot.

I have the GK MB200 head and I’m thinking one of these might be a better option than the old 112MBX...

 

[Wasnex]

In my experience, the ELF head’s built-in compressor is just too extreme. In theory you should be able to control it like you are saying, but I was never able to get a usable sound out of that amp and I think the compressor was one of the main reasons why it didn’t work for me.

The reason I brought up the GK 112MBX is that it’s similar in size and weight to the two cabs in the original post, the ELF 110 and the AI Upshot.

I have the GK MB200 head and I’m thinking one of these might be a better option than the old 112MBX...

My only suggestion is don't shy away from extreme settings, for example max out the Volume if you need to, and run the Gain extremely low. If that doesn't work then it's a lost cause and you need a different amp.

I own another amp that some people complain about the gain staging. The amp is the Orange AD200B, which has a fairly high gain preamp. The amp sounds great with the Volume totally maxed and the gain down around 9:00, but some people seem to think having to run the gain below 9:00 is a problem, so they roll lower gain tubes into the preamp such as 12AU7 or 12AT7.

AFAIK the MBX200 is the matching Ext speaker for the early MB series, and I hated the way the MB speakers sounded. But I liked the way the old MB heads sounded into decent speakers. I mean the MB150 series. Years ago I compared an MB150S head to a 400RB. The tone was pretty similiar, but I thought the MB150 was a bit sweeter sounding...unfortunately not enough power for my needs.

 

[BobbyT]

My only suggestion is don't shy away from extreme settings, for example max out the Volume if you need to, and run the Gain extremely low. If that doesn't work then it's a lost cause and you need a different amp.

I own another amp that some people complain about the gain staging. The amp is the Orange AD200B, which has a fairly high gain preamp. The amp sounds great with the Volume totally maxed and the gain down around 9:00, but some people seem to think having to run the gain below 9:00 is a problem, so they roll lower gain tubes into the preamp such as 12AU7 or 12AT7.

AFAIK the MBX200 is the matching Ext speaker for the early MB series, and I hated the way the MB speakers sounded. But I liked the way the old MB heads sounded into decent speakers. I mean the MB150 series. Years ago I compared an MB150S head to a 400RB. The tone was pretty similiar, but I thought the MB150 was a bit sweeter sounding...unfortunately not enough power for my needs.

Thanks—yeah, I sold the ELF head but am still interested in the checking out the small cabinets at some point. This 110 sounds like it might be a good option for smaller gigs.

The similarly sized GK speaker I was referring to (112MBX) was sold as the extension for the MB150. Now I use it alone with the MB200 head. Their model numbers are not easy to follow.

(E.g., I used to have the old GK 200MB combo amp... MB200, 200MB, who can keep track of all that? )

 

[nogbert]

its really a shame that the Trace eliot heads and cabinets are both marketed under the ELF name. seems like BobbyT is asking about the cabinet only and he's getting lots of info about the head... if it's any consolation it seems that the ELF 110 cabinet is unavailable at most places... i don't know if they discontinued it or what

 

[Paul Blackman]

I've used a trace gp7 series 6 15 inch combo providing 130 watts for the last 30 years and its served me well playing rock band gigs in small to medium venues. I'm now entering what is known as late middle age and the elf system looks like a good contender for trading in to a lighter more flexible system thinking about 2 10s as the original posts. They are very small though and my old school brain is worried about cabinet volume and pushing air. It looks like you can get a light ampeg 2 10 for the same price so another option might be two of those for use in larger venues for the same price but twice the cabinet volume and number of speakers. Not used ampeg before though so not sure if I'd like the tone compared to the elf. Anyone used the ampegs?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I don't know about the cabinets, but i had the chance to hear one of my best students play through a Trace Elf 1x8 combo the last two nights, once on electric and once on DB. The sound both nights was terrific. He brought it to his lesson today so I could try it, and it sounded really nice for DB. The only slightly disconcerting thing was the fan noise when you turn it on, but I have to admit that from the audience POV I never noticed it the last two nights. Here's the amp that he has: Trace Elliot ELF 1x8" 200-watt Bass Combo Amp

 

[tombowlus]

We did not include the 1x8 combo in this review, and this was admittedly mostly in the context of electric bass (though part of my play testing was with my Kay and NS NXTa uprights), but Bass Gear Magazine recently published a review of the ELF head, 1x10 and 2x8 cabs, 1x10 Combo, and the Transit-B. This is some really great-sounding gear, IME/IMHO!

 

[BobbyT]

We did not include the 1x8 combo in this review, and this was admittedly mostly in the context of electric bass (though part of my play testing was with my Kay and NS NXTa uprights), but Bass Gear Magazine recently published a review of the ELF head, 1x10 and 2x8 cabs, 1x10 Combo, and the Transit-B. This is some really great-sounding gear, IME/IMHO!

Thank you for posting this review, Tom. Incredibly comprehensive. I appreciated the assessment of the individual components as well as the comparison between the “micro-heads.”

 

[Ric Vice]

As I mentioned before, the Elf has a compressor tied into the Gain control, there is no way to turn it off, the louder you play the more it comes on.
It also has the typical Trace Eliot upper midrange emphasis. Of, course it might be just what you’re looking for with your bass and pickup. That said. It’s not for me
I far prefer the TC Electronics Bam, Markbass Nano Mark, and The Traynor SB 106 and 200 head. Just my take.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As I mentioned before, the Elf has a compressor tied into the Gain control, there is no way to turn it off, the louder you play the more it comes on.

Based on what I experienced yesterday, the compressor behaves a lot like most input gain controls, only it compresses where another amp would clip. In general, with most amps with a gain and a master volume, I tend to set the gain low and the master to taste, only raising the gain when the master is maxed (or close to it - I keep the master on my PJB combos at about 3 o’clock and adjust preamp level as needed). In my experience, by the time you get loud enough that you need to turn up the gain significantly at the input level, the resulting compression is likely a good thing that helps you cut through the mix.

I’m not planning on running out and buying an Elf combo, but I would be happy to see one at a venue or borrow one for a gig.

 

[Ric Vice]

Based on what I experienced yesterday, the compressor behaves a lot like most input gain controls, only it compresses where another amp would clip. In general, with most amps with a gain and a master volume, I tend to set the gain low and the master to taste, only raising the gain when the master is maxed (or close to it - I keep the master on my PJB combos at about 3 o’clock and adjust preamp level as needed). In my experience, by the time you get loud enough that you need to turn up the gain significantly at the input level, the resulting compression is likely a good thing that helps you cut through the mix.

I’m not planning on running out and buying an Elf combo, but I would be happy to see one at a venue or borrow one for a gig.

That’s an interesting observation Chris. The early Gallien Krueger 200MB (not to be confused with the later MB 200 Head) had what they called a limiter,
that if memory serves me, was tied to the Master Volume Control. It did work pretty well as I recall (it’s been a while since I owned that particular combo amp)
The major difference being that it had a push button cut out control. That way if you didn’t like what it was doing, you could just switch it off. I used it for EB
but turned it off for DB. That said, limiters and compressors do different things so who knows.

 

[tombowlus]

Based on what I experienced yesterday, the compressor behaves a lot like most input gain controls, only it compresses where another amp would clip. In general, with most amps with a gain and a master volume, I tend to set the gain low and the master to taste, only raising the gain when the master is maxed (or close to it - I keep the master on my PJB combos at about 3 o’clock and adjust preamp level as needed). In my experience, by the time you get loud enough that you need to turn up the gain significantly at the input level, the resulting compression is likely a good thing that helps you cut through the mix.

I’m not planning on running out and buying an Elf combo, but I would be happy to see one at a venue or borrow one for a gig.

+1 Exactly. On the ELF, not only does the compression kick in (and pretty aggressively, with the higher settings), but there is also an intentional overdrive circuit which kicks in when you crank the Gain to 95% or so. You can really vary the nature of the tone by adjusting the different Gain/Volume settings. Lower Gain and higher Volume is of course the "cleanest."