Ultra Thin Hole Saw for Cutting Covers?

[BassHappy]

I called Lenox and they were very helpful. While they don't do any custom stuff, a company out in Oregon specializes in nothing but hole saws.

Just letting everyone know, in case there is any interest, it's out there. Will let the thread know how I make out.

Looks like they do make them pretty thin too, just what the doc ordered:

 

[TundraMan]

I bought a hole saw a while back and was disappointed with how untrue it ran. I'm guessing most hole saws are being used by people cutting holes in studs and floor joists in order to pass wiring and pipes through, so they probably don't really care if that 1.5" hole they cut is really 1.57"

 

[BassHappy]

As an update, I haven't heard back from the hole saw guys, who are still scratching their heads. My friend Jon talked to his local buddy who has an X-carve machine - which would make easy and perfect work of this. He is seeing if he can find a 1/32nd bit for it.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

As an update, I haven't heard back from the hole saw guys, who are still scratching their heads. My friend Jon talked to his local buddy who has an X-carve machine - which would make easy and perfect work of this. He is seeing if he can find a 1/32nd bit for it.

Maybe....Run some test pieces before you claim easy and perfect. Running a pure thin-wall circle is serious test of a CNC machine, where you find out just how good the machine's resolution and rigidity are. A teensy bit of roughness in the math, delay in signal, or flexing of the frame, and you get a jagged circle and a bunch of broken bits. A big Fadal or Haas could do it, no problem. A small home-shop level machine? Try it and see.

 

[BassHappy]

Maybe....Run some test pieces before you claim easy and perfect. Running a pure thin-wall circle is serious test of a CNC machine, where you find out just how good the machine's resolution and rigidity are. A teensy bit of roughness in the math, delay in signal, or flexing of the frame, and you get a jagged circle and a bunch of broken bits. A big Fadal or Haas could do it, no problem. A small home-shop level machine? Try it and see.

Good point. I have no idea which machine he has - but Jon said it would make short work of it. And Jon travels with the pros not the home guys - not that it's a big deal - just that the guy likely has pro gear.

Here is the work bench he just finished for a wealthy customer in Greenwich. No maple bench cap or maple end panel installed yet in the top photo. The walnut top weighs 350 lbs by itself. No nails or screws used at all - it's all hand made dove tail. Jon is an expert at wood joining as you can see. The oak frame with the flamed maple drawer fronts are outrageous with hand hewn cherry and ebony drawer pulls. He has over 300 hours in it. Believe it or not the guy had it built as an entrance/sofa table in his foyer.

During the day he is an ace mechanical engineer who works on heavy construction equipment and has access to a fully-equipped metal tool shop.

 

[Arie X]

kinda late to the party here, but what is a "grain matching cover"? i assume a thin cavity cover up to 1/8" thick?

 

[T_Bone_TL]

1/32" bit sounds like "very difficult to not break" and "this job might be done better by a lasercutter"

 

[Jisch]

Here is the work bench he just finished for a wealthy customer in Greenwich.

Wow, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable putting any kind of metal tool on that thing for fear of scratching it, gorgeous.

 

[BassHappy]

kinda late to the party here, but what is a "grain matching cover"? i assume a thin cavity cover up to 1/8" thick?

Hey Arie

Just a cover made and sliced out of the actual wood so that it is grain matched. Thickness of the cover not necessarily an issue.

This kind of an idea, but mine are round circles - and I want mine to be more subtle - as in less noticeable - and to fit more snugly and to actually be part of the design:

 

[BassHappy]

Wow, I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable putting any kind of metal tool on that thing for fear of scratching it, gorgeous.

Yeah Jisch, I hear you.

Not a work bench at all - it's artwork - an ornamental trophy piece to greet visitors as they walk into his customer's gazillion dollar house. Kind of an over-the-top foyer or sofa table.

I will try and find pics of some of the other pieces he has made for this guy.

Also, as an example of the insanity - the guy wanted an electric golf cart. He had an old Land Rover and Jon converted it - by buying an electric motor out of a catalog and fashioning a row of batteries. Very cool conversion to say the least. Works like a charm.

 

[Rôckhewer]

1/32" bit sounds like "very difficult to not break" and "this job might be done better by a lasercutter"

+1.... Laser.
Very thin kerf... but will scorch wood a little.
Depends a lot on species & thickness as to how much "char"... BUT can be stabilized with thin CA and kerf will almost be too tight.
... or removed...But, When char is scraped /sanded off...may be slightly larger kerf than 1/32"
For instance, this cover was cut with a laser... but ebony is very resistant to laser and I had to do many multiple passes...which burned a lot of wood.
But even after sanding off all char... it still doesn't look that bad.
Anything other than ebony won't be near this bad. You can see the difference here, on the maple:

 

[BassHappy]

+1.... Laser.
Very thin kerf... but will scorch wood a little.
Depends a lot on species & thickness as to how much "char"... BUT can be stabilized with thin CA and kerf will almost be too tight.
... or removed...But, When char is scraped /sanded off...may be slightly larger kerf than 1/32"
For instance, this cover was cut with a laser... but ebony is very resistant to laser and I had to do many multiple passes...which burned a lot of wood.
But even after sanding off all char... it still doesn't look that bad.
Anything other than ebony won't be near this bad. You can see the difference here, on the maple:
View attachment 3006773

Thanks Rock!

I think the X Carve machine might be able to do the job with an extremely sharp 1/32" blade. Have to go on super slow speed and hopefully I won't have to deal with any excessive wood burning issues. This is how we learn. Will keep everyone posted on how it all goes.

I would punch the 3.75" hole all the way through the wood. Most of my backs start out at 1/4" - 5/16" as the basses will ultimately be hollowed out. I would then take the "plug" disk and trim off the top 1/8" or so to use as the cover. Then, I would take the rest of the "plug" and using my other 3.5" hole saw, I would gut it out leaving approx a 1/4" ledge for the cover to rest on. Then I would glue that piece back in and laminate another 1/8" piece slightly bigger on the inside if I needed a little extra support. Might not need that though, have to see how snug the fit is. Thinking of doing a rosette on the inner edge, so that when you pull the cover off you see a nice design there. Would also cover any unsightly glue gaps or glue lines.

 

[Jisch]

I just use a super thin blade in a scroll saw, kerf is just about perfect for covers, tight, but not too tight. The challenge with the scroll saw is making straight lines and smooth curves, it takes skill/practice and you can't use templates.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Once you've figured out how to cut out the plug, you'll have to make sure the plug stays stable and doesn't warp and curl up. For that, I recommend epoxying the wood plug to thin black Garolite. It's available in sheets of various thicknesses from McMaster. The Garolite is very rigid for its thickness. I use 1/16" black Garolite as the backing when I build wood veneer pickguards. They even sell it down to 1/64", which is useful too.

 

[rudy4444]

Once you've figured out how to cut out the plug, you'll have to make sure the plug stays stable and doesn't warp and curl up. For that, I recommend epoxying the wood plug to thin black Garolite. It's available in sheets of various thicknesses from McMaster. The Garolite is very rigid for its thickness. I use 1/16" black Garolite as the backing when I build wood veneer pickguards. They even sell it down to 1/64", which is useful too.

Garolite XX opaque black is great stuff. I keep 1/16", 1/8". 3/16", and 1/4" on hand for various projects. I used to use it for custom pickup bobbins, but quit doing that because #42 wire is just too fine for my eyesight to deal with. I now use the 1/4" mostly to make contoured banjo arm rests. It works beautifully and looks like the finest ebony after it's sanded and polished.

 

[rudy4444]

Thanks Rock!

I think the X Carve machine might be able to do the job with an extremely sharp 1/32" blade. Have to go on super slow speed and hopefully I won't have to deal with any excessive wood burning issues. This is how we learn. Will keep everyone posted on how it all goes.

I would punch the 3.75" hole all the way through the wood. Most of my backs start out at 1/4" - 5/16" as the basses will ultimately be hollowed out. I would then take the "plug" disk and trim off the top 1/8" or so to use as the cover. Then, I would take the rest of the "plug" and using my other 3.5" hole saw, I would gut it out leaving approx a 1/4" ledge for the cover to rest on. Then I would glue that piece back in and laminate another 1/8" piece slightly bigger on the inside if I needed a little extra support. Might not need that though, have to see how snug the fit is. Thinking of doing a rosette on the inner edge, so that when you pull the cover off you see a nice design there. Would also cover any unsightly glue gaps or glue lines.

View attachment 3006880

Basshappy,

Since you're looking for a gapless fit you might research techniques used in wood marquetry. In your case the circle would be cut out using a slightly angled cut (a couple of degrees) so the "plug" (or rosette) drops down into the hole and creates a gapless fit. It's necessary to plane the top thickness to match the plug level, so this has to be pre-planned and done before top carving, etc.

Another option might be to simply add binding to your circular edge once a hole saw is used. Contrasting binding would highlight the joint rather than obscure it, but sometimes that's a great solution when things don't match up precisely.

Just another couple thoughts to throw out there.

 

[Rôckhewer]

Once you've figured out how to cut out the plug, you'll have to make sure the plug stays stable and doesn't warp and curl up. For that, I recommend epoxying the wood plug to thin black Garolite. It's available in sheets of various thicknesses from McMaster. The Garolite is very rigid for its thickness. I use 1/16" black Garolite as the backing when I build wood veneer pickguards. They even sell it down to 1/64", which is useful too.

@Bruce Johnson
After 1/16" and 'Black' are selected there are still 4 different grades grades to choose from there.
Also...isn't this stuff basically Phenolic sheeting?
And as such... what type of epoxy do you use?
I used to use phenolic in a specific furniture application ...and we actually had to call in a 3M epoxy rep/ specialist to help figure out exactly what would glue it... and not just shear off under minimal flexing. We wound up going with an industrial (expensive) Scotch-Weld 2 part cartridge ...but I don't recall the formula number.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Hey Kevin;

I've been using the Garolite XX, which is easy machining and available in black or brown. Yes, Garolite is an improved version of the old Phenolics; same basic thing without the nasty chemicals. I rough up the surface and glue it with West Systems, with no problems.