Using Parametric EQ as a Poor Man's HPF?

[PraiseBassing]

I would think that one of these will give even more precise control of your tone in many ways, especially the critical midrange(note the 400,500,800 grouping) and when combined with the built in 30hz filter allows a lot of control of low end rolloff by manipulation of the bottom few sliders. YMMV though. View attachment 3628470
In reality I use one of these though. I find the cut at 62 and boost at 125 give me exactly the curve I am looking for, no hpf required. Never used one of the newer GEB7 though. Maybe I just like brown
View attachment 3628471


And a final comment about amps with built in HPF, my query was how many had been designed by AH without a hpf, his reply none, presumably none without. Confusion due to my poor choice of wording for the question I guess.

Look at these representations of what you’re talking about.

The first is with a 7.5 db cut at 50hz, with what looks to be a q close to what the boss graph for that pedal is showing and a 4th order BW HPF at 30hz:

Next is simply a 2nd order BW HPF set at 70hz to be about -7.5db at 50 hz like the first:

Do you see how much additional content you are removing by using the boss filter as compared to a HPF? That is the point that @agedhorse and @Passinwind are making.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Do you see how much additional content you are removing by using the boss filter as compared to a HPF

What tool is that from? Is it available online?
How about comparing the boss to a HP around 90 or 100, or the boss at maybe -7db to 70hzHP rather than using the extreme example of the most difference it is possible to achieve, and then showing those as well.
Would those show a closer match between the curves?

 

[PraiseBassing]

What tool is that from? Is it available online?
How about comparing the boss to a HP around 90 or 100, or the boss at maybe -7db to 70hzHP rather than using the extreme example of the most difference it is possible to achieve, and then showing those as well.
Would those show a closer match between the curves?

All 2nd order BW HPF’s

69hz:

91hz:

101hz:

30hz and -7db @ 51hz q at 1.5/1 octave:

The graph from the Boss GEB-7 manual:

 

[PraiseBassing]

The app I’m using is Mixing Station Pro. Here is the -15db at 51hz with a q of 1.5 which looks to be close to what the Boss uses:

The boss tilter actually looks wider possibly, as it appears to be closer to -7 at 100hz when cut 15 db at 51. This means even more usable content cut unnecessarily.

Of course these are not exact, but they are close enough to give a good representation.

 

[crazyBassClown]

One thing I notice from that boss response graph is the bottom 2 bands overlap significantly, and boosting the second slider would remove most of the deficit you are talking about. This is how I operate mine and perhaps is why I consider this does an adequate job from my POV as opposed to a dedicated HPF.

 

[PraiseBassing]

One thing I notice from that boss response graph is the bottom 2 bands overlap significantly, and boosting the second slider would remove most of the deficit you are talking about. This is how I operate mine and perhaps is why I consider this does an adequate job from my POV as opposed to a dedicated HPF.

If it works for you, then it works. But what I have experienced is that the gap in attenuation here:

is audibly less pleasing, than when using a HPF. Of course use what you have and want, but most here are saying that there are better tools. For that specific task.

 

[crazyBassClown]

but most here are saying that there are better tools. For that specific task.

Maybe, how many need that specific task.
How many Bass guitar speakers have sufficient response below 40hz that a few db of gain difference is going to actually be audible? Maybe a lot. Probably not many.
The biggest case I see for a HPF is that it lets you crank your bass knob but still roll off the lowest frequencies. Looking at the curves of the Boss, the top slider is a typical treble shelving control, but the bottom is a peaking filter. I don't think that's accidental. It allows a similar crank midbass but not very low end as the HPF/bass control combo does.
Potentially replacing shelving bass controls with a peaking type in bass amps may be beneficial and remove the need for external HPF completely.

 

[PraiseBassing]

Maybe, how many need that specific task.
How many Bass guitar speakers have sufficient response below 40hz that a few db of gain difference is going to actually be audible? Maybe a lot. Probably not many.
The biggest case I see for a HPF is that it lets you crank your bass knob but still roll off the lowest frequencies. Looking at the curves of the Boss, the top slider is a typical treble shelving control, but the bottom is a peaking filter. I don't think that's accidental. It allows a similar crank midbass but not very low end as the HPF/bass control combo does.
Potentially replacing shelving bass controls with a peaking type in bass amps may be beneficial and remove the need for external HPF completely.

The lack of adjustable center frequency would likely lead to the same problems if using a peak filter to boost any bass.

 

[crazyBassClown]

The lack of adjustable center frequency would likely lead to the same problems if using a peak filter to boost any bass.

Much like the lack of adjustable freq in the HPF does apparently. I still see a full featured EQ as being far more valuable than a simple hpf for similar cost and effort. Parametric EQ is also available if you are so inclined.

 

[PraiseBassing]

The lack of adjustable center frequency would likely lead to the same problems if using a peak filter to boost any bass.

Adding that it’s bot only about what the speakers are putting out, but what is being sent to the speakers.

 

[PraiseBassing]

Much like the lack of adjustable freq in the HPF does apparently. I still see a full featured EQ as being far more valuable than a simple hpf for similar cost and effort. Parametric EQ is also available if you are so inclined.

The always on hof which is an adjustable hof can be had for $85 shipped. A fully parametric eq, which is what I would be more comfortable trying to use vs a semi-parametric, I believe would start at $200.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Calling something "hype" is a troll's errand at best and fake news at worst especially since there is a long history on TalkBass regarding the topic and in the industry.

Given the absolute wave of people determined to tell me I'm wrong, I stand by my hype statement. Many years ago BFM cabs were the same. How often does someone turn up these days with a BFM cab as their avatar and go out of their way to comment in every second thread remotely related to cabs how good bfm cabs are? I can remember when it seemed like that was happening all the time.

 

[crazyBassClown]

A fully parametric eq, which is what I would be more comfortable trying to use vs a semi-parametric, I believe would start at $200.

Probably, but i assume it would also be more than 1 band. And if money is that much of a consideration I humbly suggest that neither is really what you should be buying, because both are a nicety, not a necessity.

 

[Edword]

Youse guys is a riot

 

[agedhorse]

On Page 3 through AgedHorse made it sound like that wasn't the case, though I may be mis-reading his post. If so though, I think that was crazyBassClown's point. Why have two? I suppose if the built in one is set too low to have any real use, a second one set higher could help, but why would the designers have set it there in the first place? If they know that an HPF is helpful, then surely they'd know approximately where to optimally set it for the sound they want.

These days, most quality amps have at least a 2nd order HPF, some have 3rd order, some 4th order and some compound 2nd order fixed plus 2nd order variable, resulting in the best of both worlds when the additional room control is desired.

Historically, HPF's evolved because of increasing amp power and the desire for greater low frequency extension without damage to the speakers. Same reason HPF's evolved in pro audio, first in speaker crossover/processing and then in other areas.

So there are definitely conflicting thoughts here. Some are saying that a basic HPF is built in to most commercial amps and it's just not marketed and another camp that says the most amps do NOT have an HPF built in because the average consumer doesn't care (my argument here would be that if it sounds better, saves the amp a bit on headroom, and costs very little, won't the customer be happier in the long run even if they're unaware of the feature?) So which is it? I don't know that super productive non-theoretical conversation can happen without knowing the current state of things.

Read my above clarification, it's not conflicting at all once you understand the progression.

The app I’m using is Mixing Station Pro. Here is the -15db at 51hz with a q of 1.5 which looks to be close to what the Boss uses:
View attachment 3628502

The boss tilter actually looks wider possibly, as it appears to be closer to -7 at 100hz when cut 15 db at 51. This means even more usable content cut unnecessarily.

Of course these are not exact, but they are close enough to give a good representation.

This is exactly the limitations of using an eq as a HPF that I referred to earlier.

 

[Stumbo]

Given the absolute wave of people determined to tell me I'm wrong, I stand by my hype statement.

And you're so determined that you are right that I stand by my anti-hype statement.

What facts do have that allow you to conclude that your determination is better than others' determination? Now you're in troll territory.

Many years ago BFM cabs were the same. How often does someone turn up these days with a BFM cab as their avatar and go out of their way to comment in every second thread remotely related to cabs how good bfm cabs are? I can remember when it seemed like that was happening all the time.

BFM is doing fine at https://billfitzmaurice.info/

 

[DJ Bebop]

I can leave you guys alone for a minute.

 

[crazyBassClown]

And you're so determined that you are right that I stand by my anti-hype statement.

What facts do have that allow you to conclude that your determination is better than others' determination? Now you're in troll territory.

People have managed to be able to play music fine for 50+ years without external High pass filters on their bass amps. I feel that makes a fairly solid case for not actually needing one. Or is that not a fact?

Why are you so invested in telling every man and his dog at every opportunity how good HPF is?
talkbass.com HPF - Google Search
The info is out there already.
If you were a commercial supplier there would be no doubt at all that how you are conducting yourself is pure spamming.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Maybe we should all just go back to this

 

[Chef]

Closed again.