Vintage vs. Modern Rickenbacker Basses: 4001 & 4003 Bass, etc.

[EndlessMike]

First post ever from a longtime reader of this great site. So, I see that a lot of threads quickly go off-topic. Friendly request to all to keep this on-topic, please, friends. Thanks.

So, a seasoned guitar builder I am friendly with (who has been a management-level employee as floor supervisor and custom shop builder at Gibson, Fender, and Guild) told me that to keep costs low and profits high Rickenbacker now uses die-cast, aluminum, cheaper metals for the bridge, tuners, etc., and also installs pickups and electronics that are built from low-grade materials and manufactured by subcontractors to minimal standards.

Not finding much on previous (or even current) Rickenbacker manufacturing standards or if these assertions regarding the implied superiority of "vintage" 4001 and/or 4003 models is even true. If true, a three part question: (1) what were the machined parts made of, (2) what were the pickups/electronics made of OR by whom, and (3) did these variations result in superior sound-quality, better instrument playablity, or yield other positive attributes?

Final question and why I'm asking: I'm the owner of a 2015 4003, which was purchased new. I love the playability, feel, sound, and balance of this badboy but could this love affair be even better?! Will I get a better sound and an overall superior playing experience if I purchase an older 4001 or 4003 Rickenbacker bass and if so what model years?

 

[Paul Boyer]

Your "seasoned guitar builder" may have experienced some of the new Chinese copies that are out there, which would give the impressions you report. He certainly isn't describing any real Rickenbacker. All you have to do is look at the Rick you have now to know he is "full of the bean" as my wife likes to say.

 

[Pet Sounds]

I have owned and still own older Rics and new ones, and IMO the quality is quite consistent. I know there are some complaints about QC, but I have never owned a bad Ric.

 

[Anachronism]

Your source is fuller of bovine excrement than a herd of constipated longhorns.

 

[ptleftybass]

Final question and why I'm asking: I'm the owner of a 2015 4003, which was purchased new. I love the playability, feel, sound, and balance of this badboy but could this love affair be even better?! Will I get a better sound and an overall superior playing experience if I purchase an older 4001 or 4003 Rickenbacker bass and if so what model years?

If you love the "feel,sound and balance", what's the problem. Love your Rickenbacker anything I or anyone else will tell you is our opinion. If you play another one and you like you can have 2. Welcome to TB!

 

[bhunt1]

I have only owned 2 Rics - a '75 4001 and a 2015 4003 and the newer one is vastly superior in quality imo - I also like the wider neck on the 2015. My '75 had a jazz width neck which I don't prefer, and it had quality issues with the paint and the frets. This is just my limited experience of course, but I would personally never bother with an older Ric because the new one I have is so nice.

 

[bobyoung53]

It seems to me most people missed the question. I like the sound of 4001's better but can't say they sound better than new 4003's just different, the pickups are wound more nowadays giving them more mid and bottom and the basses themselves are less delicate. Old Ricks are all a little different from each other, they are like vintage race cars, very high strung instruments but they can really be tweaked into being great sounding basses, the newer ones are more uniform. The older Ricks necks were thinner and the basses more clear sounding. That being said I like them all and the next one will be a Jetglo 4003S. I like 70's into early 80's Ricks, i have a 79 4001 and an 85 4003FL and they both sound great and have thin necks.

 

[s_wood]

It seems to me most people missed the question. I like the sound of 4001's better but can't say they sound better than new 4003's just different, the pickups are wound more nowadays giving them more mid and bottom and the basses themselves are less delicate.

One very important difference between all 4001 and the 4003's made before 1985 is that the tone circuit on those basses included a .0047 capacitor that was wired into the tone controls. It was designed to, and did, roll off a fair amount of the low end. Most (but not all) of the 4003 's made after 1985 have a "vintage tone control" wired into the tone knob which uses a push/pull switch to switch the cap in and out of the circuit. The difference in tone is quite noticeable.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Only Ric I ever really played, aside from picking up a friends for a few minutes, is mine. Also a 2015 4003, that I love. Don't know anything about the older ones, and have no reason to venture there. I like new instruments, and I like the modern Ric tone a lot more than the old school 4001.

I know there are some complaints about QC, but I have never owned a bad Ric.

Quality control complaints on Rics I'm beginning to believe are mythical. That one dude with the video got lots of milage (note:1 dude), and I think there was a few months here maybe 6 or 7 years ago where a few people had some complaints. Outside of that, everyone I know who buys a Ric seems stupid crazy happy with it. Old or new.

And now that I know the truss rod wrench can be bought in any $.99 cent store... weee-hah!!!!!!

Still lovin my Ric.

 

[bobyoung53]

One very important difference between all 4001 and the 4003's made before 1985 is that the tone circuit on those basses included a .0047 capacitor that was wired into the tone controls. It was designed to, and did, roll off a fair amount of the low end. Most (but not all) of the 4003 's made after 1985 have a "vintage tone control" wired into the tone knob which uses a push/pull switch to switch the cap in and out of the circuit. The difference in tone is quite noticeable.

Yeah I bypassed the cap in my 4001 years ago, sounds much better without it, much fuller, I think they put the vintage tone control in somewhere around 2005-2006. My 85 4003 doesn't have it, JH got rid of them sometime in 1984 and put them back in and made them switchable in 2006 (just googled it)

 

[bobyoung53]

Only Ric I ever really played, aside from picking up a friends for a few minutes, is mine. Also a 2015 4003, that I love. Don't know anything about the older ones, and have no reason to venture there. I like new instruments, and I like the modern Ric tone a lot more than the old school 4001.



Quality control complaints on Rics I'm beginning to believe are mythical. That one dude with the video got lots of milage (note:1 dude), and I think there was a few months here maybe 6 or 7 years ago where a few people had some complaints. Outside of that, everyone I know who buys a Ric seems stupid crazy happy with it. Old or new.

And now that I know the truss rod wrench can be bought in any $.99 cent store... weee-hah!!!!!!

Still lovin my Ric.

I use the little 1/4" socket and black handled thing in my Sears toolbox, works great. An slim 1/4" nutdriver will work.

 

[GIBrat51]

I have a '73 4001 (made in September, so it got the very early versions of the Hi-Gain pickups, that 4003s get today) and an '01 4003 (which I suppose could be considered fairly new). Although I voted "True", please understand that my vote is purely subjective. To my old ears, my 4001, with 43-tear old (fairly) low output pickups, does sound better than my 4003. A little. Most of the time...to me. And, it does seem to feel and play a little better, too; but if anybody else played them blindfolded? I think they'd be very hard pressed to tell which was which...
As for the difference in build quality? I'm afraid I have to agree; your friend is... misinformed. Today's Ricks aren't really built any better or worse than the older ones. There have been a few minor design changes, but the actual quality of the build is about the same. Rickenbacker pickups - no matter what type - are, and always have been - hand wound at the Rickenbacker factory, by a couple of Rickenbacker employees who have been doing it for many years. Tuners? My 4001 is one of the last ones to get the "Wavy" Grover tuners (sooo nice!), but with the exception of a short transitional run of basses with tuners of equally high quality, Rickenbackers have used Schaller BM-3 tuners ever since. Which are neither cheap, bad quality, nor Chinese. Sie sind auf Deutschland, nicht wahr? The 4004 Ricks use a Schaller bridge, as well. The 4001 tailpieces were made of an aluminum alloy at one time (prior to mine, anyhow), but they are (and have been) made of a zinc alloy for decades now. And, although they're made here... yes, I will concede that they probably could be made a little better. But, far as I know, nothing is, or ever has been made from crummy junk, domestic or otherwise, on a Rick. Your friend is - to put it gently - very much mistaken...
And if you want to see for yourself? There are some excellent factory tour videos on You Tube. Well worth watching....

 

[Coolhandjjl]

New 4003's are very high quality basses. If you go to a 4001, the truss rod system on those is a pain on the neck for most folks.

To vintage-ize a modern Ric, you could try a Ric toaster neck pup and route it to the 1/2" position. For the bridge pup, you could try a Ric horseshoe or a Classic Amplification pup. There is a member here who can build vintage-spec wiring harness's as well.

It is a shame Ric no longer makes the solid cast aluminum tailpiece. The design of the current cast pot metal one is almost as strong, and reports of tail-lift are almost non-existant now.

 

[Ric5]

VINTAGE VS MODERN ...

You cannot say one is better ... you can say they are different ...

I prefer the newer ones but I also appreciate the older ones.

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

One thing I never see addressed is the pickup position. The neck pickup on the 4003 is in a DIFFERENT spot compared to the 4001, which puts it right under the 24th fret harmonic. Which IMO choked out a lot of useful overtones and made the neck pickup almost unusable when I had my 4003.

 

[Ric5]

One thing I never see addressed is the pickup position. The neck pickup on the 4003 is in a DIFFERENT spot compared to the 4001, which puts it right under the 24th fret harmonic. Which IMO choked out a lot of useful overtones and made the neck pickup almost unusable when I had my 4003.

Most of the 4001 basses have the exact same neck pickup position as the modern 4003 ...

 

[Right_Butterscotch64]

Most of the 4001 basses have the exact same neck pickup position as the modern 4003 ...

Do they? I was under the impression that the pickup position was changed on the newer 4003, as in right on the harmonic instead of slightly closer to the neck.

EDIT: The 4001 is 1/2 inch from the neck, while the 4003 is a full inch.

 

[Ric5]

Do they? I was under the impression that the pickup position was changed on the newer 4003, as in right on the harmonic instead of slightly closer to the neck.

Here's a 70s 4001

 

[CGremlin]

My 4003 experiences has been with a 1987 Jetglo that I bought new and have since sold, and a 2014 4003W. I liked the shallower neck a lot more on the older one, but I've gotten used to the 2014's baseball bat and the tone just stomps all over the older one.

 

[Micky]

One very important difference between all 4001 and the 4003's made before 1985 is that the tone circuit on those basses included a .0047 capacitor that was wired into the tone controls. It was designed to, and did, roll off a fair amount of the low end. Most (but not all) of the 4003 's made after 1985 have a "vintage tone control" wired into the tone knob which uses a push/pull switch to switch the cap in and out of the circuit. The difference in tone is quite noticeable.

The Push/pull Control when in "Modern mode", boosts the output signal which can be percieved as "more lows". When in "Vintage mode", it goes through the capacitor.
(quoting RIC themselves)
The vintage Mode gives a better balance between NPU and BPU, according to me.