Vintage vs. Modern Rickenbacker Basses: 4001 & 4003 Bass, etc.

Vintage Rickenbacker 4001 and 4003 basses sound better than modern 4003 basses?

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#21
GIBrat51 said:
I have a '73 4001 (made in September, so it got the very early versions of the Hi-Gain pickups, that 4003s get today) and an '01 4003 (which I suppose could be considered fairly new). Although I voted "True", please understand that my vote is purely subjective. To my old ears, my 4001, with 43-tear old (fairly) low output pickups, does sound better than my 4003. A little. Most of the time...to me. And, it does seem to feel and play a little better, too; but if anybody else played them blindfolded? I think they'd be very hard pressed to tell which was which...
As for the difference in build quality? I'm afraid I have to agree; your friend is... misinformed. Today's Ricks aren't really built any better or worse than the older ones. There have been a few minor design changes, but the actual quality of the build is about the same. Rickenbacker pickups - no matter what type - are, and always have been - hand wound at the Rickenbacker factory, by a couple of Rickenbacker employees who have been doing it for many years. Tuners? My 4001 is one of the last ones to get the "Wavy" Grover tuners (sooo nice!), but with the exception of a short transitional run of basses with tuners of equally high quality, Rickenbackers have used Schaller BM-3 tuners ever since. Which are neither cheap, bad quality, nor Chinese. Sie sind auf Deutschland, nicht wahr? The 4004 Ricks use a Schaller bridge, as well. The 4001 tailpieces were made of an aluminum alloy at one time (prior to mine, anyhow), but they are (and have been) made of a zinc alloy for decades now. And, although they're made here... yes, I will concede that they probably could be made a little better. But, far as I know, nothing is, or ever has been made from crummy junk, domestic or otherwise, on a Rick. Your friend is - to put it gently - very much mistaken...
And if you want to see for yourself? There are some excellent factory tour videos on You Tube. Well worth watching....:)
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Sie sind auS Deutschland. JA! Richtig! (True) Die Strapholders too. All Schaller :)
 
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#22
JellinWellen said:
Do they? I was under the impression that the pickup position was changed on the newer 4003, as in right on the harmonic instead of slightly closer to the neck.

EDIT: The 4001 is 1/2 inch from the neck, while the 4003 is a full inch.
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They were moved 0,5" inch closer to the bridge from 1975. Still 4001 model. :)
 
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#23
EndlessMike said:
First post ever from a longtime reader of this great site. So, I see that a lot of threads quickly go off-topic. Friendly request to all to keep this on-topic, please, friends. Thanks.

So, a seasoned guitar builder I am friendly with (who has been a management-level employee as floor supervisor and custom shop builder at Gibson, Fender, and Guild) told me that to keep costs low and profits high Rickenbacker now uses die-cast, aluminum, cheaper metals for the bridge, tuners, etc., and also installs pickups and electronics that are built from low-grade materials and manufactured by subcontractors to minimal standards.

Not finding much on previous (or even current) Rickenbacker manufacturing standards or if these assertions regarding the implied superiority of "vintage" 4001 and/or 4003 models is even true. If true, a three part question: (1) what were the machined parts made of, (2) what were the pickups/electronics made of OR by whom, and (3) did these variations result in superior sound-quality, better instrument playablity, or yield other positive attributes?

Final question and why I'm asking: I'm the owner of a 2015 4003, which was purchased new. I love the playability, feel, sound, and balance of this badboy but could this love affair be even better?! Will I get a better sound and an overall superior playing experience if I purchase an older 4001 or 4003 Rickenbacker bass and if so what model years?
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Excellent first post. Made my morning, that. For several reasons. ;)

Welcome to Talkbass.
 
#24
Having owned a 79' 4001, the only significant difference I can see vs modern 4003 is the neck thickness, mine had a very thin neck, but there was a lot more variation, and more examples of neck problems, so that's kind of a crapshoot. The old "hairpin" trussrods were prone to failure or damage by mis-adjustment. The newer ones are a marginal improvement, and the big trussrod nut pocket required right at the point of maximum neck stress is a design flaw IMO, but it works, albeit somewhat crankily. Its possible to find a perfect 4001, but there were plenty of dogs too, just like any brand. The vintage tone circuit makes the 4003 a more versatile bass electronically. Recent real and well documented finish QC problems aside, the current 4003 are probably the most consistently well built in Rics history. The bridge is pot metal zinc, better suited for hood ornaments or cheap trophies, and its a PITA to intonate, but once set, works fine. The Hipshot is a better bridge if you like to fiddle with string height. The Schaller tuners are very high quality, adjustable tension, as good or better than Fender or similar elephant ear style tuners. The rest of the hardware and plastic seems like good quality, no real difference from the older models. The finish is UV catalyzed, and doesn't seems to yellow like the old clearcoat, which is a good thing in my book. The company has a richly deserved and well documented reputation for crappy CS, but they are not alone in todays corporate world, and saints compared to companies like Comcast and Microsoft. Short of collector value, id take a new 4003 over an old 4001 any day.
 
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#25
I have an 80's 4003 with a two-piece pickguard. It has a slightly cleaner tone (no cap. ). I compare it to an 80's 4003 with wavey Grovers and a rounder neck that is less dinged. Now I want a new 4003 in Mapleglow to replace my beloved 1970 4001; may it play on with glory...
 
#29
The OP didn't mention cosmetics as a point of comparison, that's one aspect where some of the older deluxe model 4001 have new 4003 beat. The combination of checker binding , crushed mother of pearl inlays, and a horseshoe/toaster pup combination was the best looking incarnation IMO. Those details/ combined with either a Burgandyglo or Jetglo paint job.....gorgeous. You can get checker binding on some of the Japanese export models, but they are stupid expensive.
 
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#34
In thinking about the classic, snarly Squire Ric tone, from this discussion the two big variables sound like a) the neck pickup position and b) the .0047 cap. Given that 'b' is capable of being engaged / disengaged in the 4003 or removed in the 4001, what modern reissues / variants have the neck pickup in the pre-1974 position 1/2" from the butt of the neck?
 
#35
lug said:
As said before, MOST of the 70's era 4001's have a very slim neck. At the nut they are the same but as the neck progresses it is thinner. My 70's 4001 is a dream to play.
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The basses 1972 and earlier had the really slim neck ... after that they beefed up the neck to make it stronger ...

Also old basses had pickups wound to 6 to 8k ohms the 4003 has 11k ohm pickups

Also pickups and necks vary somewhat year by year throughout the history of Rickenbacker ...
 
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#36
EndlessMike said:
So, a seasoned guitar builder I am friendly with (who has been a management-level employee as floor supervisor and custom shop builder at Gibson, Fender, and Guild) told me that to keep costs low and profits high Rickenbacker now uses die-cast, aluminum, cheaper metals for the bridge, tuners, etc., and also installs pickups and electronics that are built from low-grade materials and manufactured by subcontractors to minimal standards.
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Your friend is an ignorant jerkweasel.

As far as vintage vs. modern, I prefer vintage, but am clearly in the minority.
 
#37
One other thing I have noticed with 4001's compared to 4003's, the bodies seem more resonant. And yes you have to be careful adjusting a 4001, all the force ends up right at the nut, the ends of the doubled over truss rods can slip off the aluminum black pushing up on the fretboard when the nuts are tightened. What i do is just put the bass standing on the floor in front of me and hold it between my feet and pull back on the neck while I tighten the truss rod nuts. I haven't had any trouble with one since I've done that. I like the old truss rod system I think it contributes to the sound. Incidentally there's a company in England that makes new 4001 truss rods called Rickysounds if anyone need a new set. I bought some new truss rod nuts from them and they are exactly the same. For some reason they only put them in ebay in German, I wonder why? haha!
 
#38
Ric5 said:
The basses 1972 and earlier had the really slim neck ... after that they beefed up the neck to make it stronger ...

Also old basses had pickups wound to 6 to 8k ohms the 4003 has 11k ohm pickups

Also pickups and necks vary somewhat year by year throughout the history of Rickenbacker ...
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Mine is a 77 and the neck is extremely thin compared to modern rics except at the nut.
 
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#39
i've been playing rick basses since the mid 70s. over the decades, i've played some dogs and some gems. they used to be inconsistent. however, since at least 2008, i haven't found a single bad one. not one! i currently own seven 4003/4003S basses from 2008-2015; all but one were bought sight unseen via various internet retailers and every single one is excellent. i've heard that rickenbacker started using CNC some years ago, so i wonder if that might have something to do with it.
 
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#40
I have a 2012 4003. I prefer the new model. I dig the wider neck. And the vintage switch adds some nice depth to tone.
I find old and new Ric's are very well made. Good QC.
 
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