The thread title says it all. I'm the one who usually counts the beat when we start a song. Do you think a simple metronome click would be insulting to the others?
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We have no drums. Use metronome during rehearsal, yes or no?
- Thread starter G Aichele
- Start date
Is there someone in your group with solid rhythm that they can be “ the metronome “?
Or does everyone drift?
If you have a human metronome in the band then you probably don’t need one, listen to them.
In bluegrass the bass player is usually the metronome since there are no drums hammering out the down beat.
Or does everyone drift?
If you have a human metronome in the band then you probably don’t need one, listen to them.
In bluegrass the bass player is usually the metronome since there are no drums hammering out the down beat.
Could be helpful when first running through a song. You don't want to come to rely on it, as it's not going to be there when gigging (unless you do the click to headphones thing, of course, but that's probably only gonna happen if using tracks), but if for example some song keeps speeding up, it could be useful to do it with a metronome once or twice to get how it's "supposed" to feel.
If you as the bassist are the metronome then you might need to add some ghost notes, especially during parts when the bass lays out, to keep things in line for a bit, but again that should be temporary so you can get everyone on the same page, and get the songs to the point where you can lay out for real without things going off tempo or falling apart.
Insulting, well, that really depends on the people involved and their relationships.
If you as the bassist are the metronome then you might need to add some ghost notes, especially during parts when the bass lays out, to keep things in line for a bit, but again that should be temporary so you can get everyone on the same page, and get the songs to the point where you can lay out for real without things going off tempo or falling apart.
Insulting, well, that really depends on the people involved and their relationships.
Thanks. I think I'm probably the closest we have to such a person. I hope that's not just ego speaking -- and I am the bass player.
It's a good part-time exercise IME. Keeps certain people honest.
There's drifting (which even machines do when they're not synced to a master clock). There's the music "breathing" (which I am a fan of). Some genres like classical & klezmer have all kinds of changes by design (that's some next-level synergy a lot of groups never get to).
Then there's that thing where folks help themselves to a brand new tempo when they're not supposed to. Practicing to a click can be a good remedy for that bad habit.
That thing where only one person can hear the click and they're not strong enough to drive the group, then they give everyone that "who farted" look halfway through the song? That's a non-starter.
One BL was actually doing that and we came dangerously close to losing the whole band (or at least the rhythm section). We finally got it so the click was audible to everyone – without blowing out all our eardrums. (Kind of a fine line...)
I have to admit, it does seem to be helping the group, somewhat. The next refinement IMHO would be to phase it back & try at least some rehearsals without.
Beneficial as it may be, I still harbor this deep down urge to throw certain BLs' metronomes into the forest.
There's drifting (which even machines do when they're not synced to a master clock). There's the music "breathing" (which I am a fan of). Some genres like classical & klezmer have all kinds of changes by design (that's some next-level synergy a lot of groups never get to).
Then there's that thing where folks help themselves to a brand new tempo when they're not supposed to. Practicing to a click can be a good remedy for that bad habit.
That thing where only one person can hear the click and they're not strong enough to drive the group, then they give everyone that "who farted" look halfway through the song? That's a non-starter.
One BL was actually doing that and we came dangerously close to losing the whole band (or at least the rhythm section). We finally got it so the click was audible to everyone – without blowing out all our eardrums. (Kind of a fine line...)
I have to admit, it does seem to be helping the group, somewhat. The next refinement IMHO would be to phase it back & try at least some rehearsals without.
Beneficial as it may be, I still harbor this deep down urge to throw certain BLs' metronomes into the forest.
Maybe. But IMHO you should practice exactly the same as you will perform. So you might use a metronome temporarily if it's necessary to get to a point where it is not required.
For the record: While I can play in a group without drums, I generally do not like doing it. People typically assume the bass is solely responsible for time. I typically use a really bright tone and people still seem to have problems reliably interpreting where I am placing the beat. As a result, tempo tends to fluctuate and rhythmic tension tends to be really extreme/disconcerting....really unpleasant
.
Or maybe the problem is I can't clearly hear where they are placing the beat.
It should get easier with practice, but I would much rather play with drums.
For the record: While I can play in a group without drums, I generally do not like doing it. People typically assume the bass is solely responsible for time. I typically use a really bright tone and people still seem to have problems reliably interpreting where I am placing the beat. As a result, tempo tends to fluctuate and rhythmic tension tends to be really extreme/disconcerting....really unpleasant
. Or maybe the problem is I can't clearly hear where they are placing the beat.
It should get easier with practice, but I would much rather play with drums.
i've been in bands with and without drummers where we used a metronome - preferably with a bright flashing light. and i've been in bands with and without drummers where we didn't use a click or metronome. some of those bands had trouble with speeding up or slowing down, and inevitably someone was insulted when i brought up the possibility of using a click track or metronome. often those who took insult were under the impression that only beginners used click tracks. i compiled a list of studio pros who use them, and that sometimes helped.
curious: why would using a metronome be insulting to others/anyone? TIA
I’m not a pro player but a decent one, and have a lot of playing in ensembles time accumulated ,IME/IMO until you can really lock down a tempo, I’d recommend woodshedding (solo practice) always with a metronome/drum machine. At some point you will be able to just lock into the tempo whenever you want.
Whether or not you have to use a metronome, machine or human, while rehearsing in an ensemble really depends on the ensemble, as I mentioned before. While it would seam that the drums or bass would be the go to metronome because it generally is, it doesn’t mean it’s always that way. It really depends on how the music is arranged. If playing without drums someone in the group has to arrange their parts to fill that roll. If the bass player takes the roll it means have to hit that downbeat more often and refrain from to many big long whole notes. If it’s the guitar they need stick more to a rhythmic style and not noodle too much or just hit big fat power chords every 2 bars. If it’s keys they fill a more rhythmic roll and stay away from just playing pads or noodling across the keyboard.
I’ve mostly played in small trios, singer song written stuff, Americana, Bluegrass, stuff without drums or stuff that the drums are not a pro dominant part of the ensemble. So I’ve usually been the one to have to reign everyone in from speeding up or slowing down too much, but it also required me to adjust my playing style to do so. I couldn’t just play what I wanted to play, or if doing covers, rearranging parts so I could be the “metronome”.
Playing without drums is a great, different experience, more so if the only drummers you’ve played with can’t lock on to a tempo, or play too loud.
So good luck to you and make sure to still have fun whatever you are playing.
Cheers.
Edit:
Just one more thing to add, everything above is a broad generalization. There are lots a of different types of ensembles, players, and music styles, so there are no absolutes.
In jazz, wind ensembles, and orchestral music sometimes the roll of metronome will shift from one player to another depending on the music being played, sometimes even in the same piece.
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Hurricane Jimmie
Supporting Member
So Anyway, I think anything that aids in learning/rehearsing the song should be used.
I worked for a little combo that played retirement homes. When the venue couldn't support a drummer, the BL brought his drum machine and set it on a very simple click. It helped keep things together.
I worked for a little combo that played retirement homes. When the venue couldn't support a drummer, the BL brought his drum machine and set it on a very simple click. It helped keep things together.
practice with a metronome happens at home, not as a band. if your band is not going to be performing with a metronome on stage, then i don't think you should use it in practice either. band members need to come to rehearsal with their time dialed in.
If a band falls apart without the drummer, it means that their time isn't great even with the drummer, and they'd sound tighter and more musical if they worked on their time at home. I like playing with a drummer -- it's less work. But I also have no problem with drummer-less rehearsals or gigs.
Some members in my band think they keep time just fine. They don't. I've already suggested that we each should practice on our own with metronomes. They won't. I've tried to reinforce a steady beat with my bass lines, but sometimes it's not enough. Hence my query here.
Metronome can be tough if everyone is not used to/comfortable with it. I've seen some very capable players just get flummoxed trying to play to fixed time like a metronome ... or click in a session.
Another tool that I like a lot instead of a metronome, is LiveBPM (free tool). The app "listens" and establishes what the BPM is as you play, and then shows the bands time as a real time graph line. So you can see if time is rushing or dragging and you can adjust. I was turned on to it by a very skilled drummer I work with from time to time and I have found it to be very useful and less difficult to work with than a band trying to play to a metronome or click.
Also, another approach is to just have one person hear the metronome or click, or even use the LiveBPM tool, and then the band follows that person. Thats a very common approach for pro bands that use fixed time ... one person (usually the drummer, but not always) gets the fixed time, then the rest follow that time keeper.
solid time with multiple players can be an interesting challenge. good luck!
Another tool that I like a lot instead of a metronome, is LiveBPM (free tool). The app "listens" and establishes what the BPM is as you play, and then shows the bands time as a real time graph line. So you can see if time is rushing or dragging and you can adjust. I was turned on to it by a very skilled drummer I work with from time to time and I have found it to be very useful and less difficult to work with than a band trying to play to a metronome or click.
Also, another approach is to just have one person hear the metronome or click, or even use the LiveBPM tool, and then the band follows that person. Thats a very common approach for pro bands that use fixed time ... one person (usually the drummer, but not always) gets the fixed time, then the rest follow that time keeper.
solid time with multiple players can be an interesting challenge. good luck!
How about an isolated drum track off of youtube?
And yet somehow bluegrass bands, old time bands, string quartets, woodwind quintets, etc magically manage to keep time without a trap drummer back there going THUMP WHACK THUMP WHACK. Lift up your head and look outside that little rock and roll box you've chained yourself inside of. It'll make you a better musician.
thanks for responding!
if any of them think they're 'god's gift' to time-keeping = i'd put him/her in charge of the matter and get some rehearsing done.
It's a tool. It can make you better. Use it now and then if a passage or song is tough. I keep a free app on my phone for those times.
In an acoustic trio I sometimes play in I use it to make sure I'm on, especially songs they play differently than my other bands.
When our originals band went into the studio, we used it to keep us on beat for punch-ins.
Dont have to rely on it all the time, but no reason not to have it when needed
In an acoustic trio I sometimes play in I use it to make sure I'm on, especially songs they play differently than my other bands.
When our originals band went into the studio, we used it to keep us on beat for punch-ins.
Dont have to rely on it all the time, but no reason not to have it when needed
