What do you think of a tone knob that functions while active mode?

N

Nayatteu

Oct 10, 2023
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#1
I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.
 
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#2
I think you got your question across fine.

I totally see the need for a tone knob in passive mode (my player plus PJ does not have this and I miss it), but can you not just turn down the treble and a bit of mids to achieve the same result as a tone knob in active mode? I would argue that it's not needed. But don't let that stop you--it's your bass!
 
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#3
SharpCat said:
I think you got your question across fine.

I totally see the need for a tone knob in passive mode (my player plus PJ does not have this and I miss it), but can you not just turn down the treble and a bit of mids to achieve the same result as a tone knob in active mode? I would argue that it's not needed. But don't let that stop you--it's your bass!
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No, I'm listening carefully to your comments.
I was thinking the same thing as you not too long ago, that passive tone control in the active state is too much....

I know that in theory I could get similar nuances by controlling the MID and TREBLE EQs, but it's a bit of a challenge.

Thanks for the good feedback.
 
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#4
Nayatteu said:
I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.
Click to expand...

I’ve wired a few basses like that and ir worked very well. When I was still making preamps for a luthier friend I also did many with two band preamps using bass and mid controls, and the passive tone control handling treble. My friend’s pickups often have very hot treble output to the point that active boost is not needed or wanted, which is what gave me the idea to use that format.
 
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#5
Passinwind said:
I’ve wired a few basses like that and ir worked very well. When I was still making preamps for a luthier friend I also did many with two band preamps using bass and mid controls, and the passive tone control handling treble. My friend’s pickups often have very hot treble output to the point that active boost is not needed or wanted, which is what gave me the idea to use that format.
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This can be a learning opportunity for me here....

I always ASSumed that a passive tone control was simply wired somewhere just before the 1/4 output jack and was a simple pot with a capacitor in use for bleeding the treble control. And this pot wasn't wired into the preamp in any way.

No?
 
#6
Geri O said:
This can be a learning opportunity for me here....

I always ASSumed that a passive tone control was simply wired somewhere just before the 1/4 output jack and was a simple pot with a capacitor in use for bleeding the treble control. And this pot wasn't wired into the preamp in any way.

No?
Click to expand...

I'd suggest you start here with TB member @RobbieK's excellent two part video on passive tone controls:



As you'll see, it's not quite that simple, because pickup inductance is quite important and there's a variable resonant peak at play, not just a simple treble bleed. In the case I'm discussing, the passive TC comes in front of the preamp, usually along with any volume or blend pots. This gives a different sort of loading scenario than a post-preamp volume control, which can be good or bad depending. It also makes bypassing the preamp a lot simpler, since the same volume pot works in both modes. Happy to go deeper, but let's start there. ;)
 
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#7
I've done it many times and I like how it functions. Seems to react slightly differently than when you cut the high on the preamp. And it's also intuitive if you're finding yourself either used to passive controls and/or switching between them on the same bass.

If you do decide to separate the passive tone and only want it to function in passive mode, this is the wiring diagram that I found on here many years back from line6man:

PTC bypass wiring.png

If the connections are made for the preamp to be in play, the passive tone is not part of the circuit.
If the preamp is bypassed, then the PTC comes into the circuit.
Super simple!
 
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#10
Passinwind said:
I'd suggest you start here with TB member @RobbieK's excellent two part video on passive tone controls:



As you'll see, it's not quite that simple, because pickup inductance is quite important and there's a variable resonant peak at play, not just a simple treble bleed. In the case I'm discussing, the passive TC comes in front of the preamp, usually along with any volume or blend pots. This gives a different sort of loading scenario than a post-preamp volume control, which can be good or bad depending. It also makes bypassing the preamp a lot simpler, since the same volume pot works in both modes. Happy to go deeper, but let's start there. ;)
Click to expand...

Cool, thanx for the info. And the subsequent comments on the topic.

I have no interest in changing anything I currently have, I love how they both work (trickfish IPA in my Jazz-style, OEM in my Stingray Special). But even at my old age, I still enjoy learning things. But my intentions for my electronic skills will go no further than installing pups and preamps as they are provided.
 
#12
Geri O said:
Cool, thanx for the info. And the subsequent comments on the topic.

I have no interest in changing anything I currently have, I love how they both work (trickfish IPA in my Jazz-style, OEM in my Stingray Special). But even at my old age, I still enjoy learning things. But my intentions for my electronic skills will go no further than installing pups and preamps as they are provided.
Click to expand...

Roger that. I am now (as in today) officially retired from any and all commercial MI electronics work, and barely even playing bass at all these days to boot. Happy to pass along a few more crumbs while I'm still here though. And like you, I will hopefully never stop learning new things that catch my fancy. ;)
 
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#13
My Sadowsky P5 was my first bass to have an active preamp with passive tone (called VTC, for Vintage Tone Control). Long story short, nearly all of my actives have one. Boosting active treble and cutting passive tone typically results in a high mid/presence boost - or merely softens the edge as needed. Ingenious combo IMO.
 
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#15
Passive tone + active mode = awesome :hyper:
Definitely different than just rolling the treble off, especially with shelving treble cut.
I use both for different purposes, and using the passive tone in active mode helps retaining some of the vintage character in your tone, that you can further sculpt with the active EQ.
 
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#16
Passinwind said:
I'd suggest you start here with TB member @RobbieK's excellent two part video on passive tone controls:



As you'll see, it's not quite that simple, because pickup inductance is quite important and there's a variable resonant peak at play, not just a simple treble bleed. In the case I'm discussing, the passive TC comes in front of the preamp, usually along with any volume or blend pots. This gives a different sort of loading scenario than a post-preamp volume control, which can be good or bad depending. It also makes bypassing the preamp a lot simpler, since the same volume pot works in both modes. Happy to go deeper, but let's start there. ;)
Click to expand...


Thank you for your detailed explanation. It really helped me a lot.
I was simply thinking of treble bleeding, but apparently that's not the problem....

Fuzzbass said:
My Sadowsky P5 was my first bass to have an active preamp with passive tone (called VTC, for Vintage Tone Control). Long story short, nearly all of my actives have one. Boosting active treble and cutting passive tone typically results in a high mid/presence boost - or merely softens the edge as needed. Ingenious combo IMO.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I'm thinking.
It's actually used a lot in Sadowski, so it would have been nice if I had used Sadowski to get a feel for it, but unfortunately I don't.
 
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#18
I've got it on my Markbass kimandu too. The Markbass preamp (that you can order as a part) has two volumes and a tonality (jazz bass type set up) + 3 band EQ. The push-pull allows to be in full passive mode with only the jazzbass set up when OFF, but the active mode keep the tonality knob working. I find it pretty useful: i can set up overall bass tone with EQ, then only act with the tonality knob when i want to calm down high without touching the balance i've set up with the EQ. Finally i use is kinda like a passive bass on which i could set up sound with an extra EQ.
 
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