What do you think of a tone knob that functions while active mode?

[MDBass]

I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.

It’s an excellent idea: some preamps (like the aforementioned Sadowsky) are specifically designed to work that way, and your English is excellent as well

Your luthier may be brilliant at woodworking, but his knowledge of how active preamps and passive tone controls function is a little lacking.

A passive tone knob is essentially an LPF with a variable corner frequency.

That’s a very different thing than a shelf boost/cut with a fixed corner frequency, which is what an active treble control is.

Those two tools can actually work together in a very musical way: recording/mixing engineers use them in conjunction frequently when EQ’ing for precisely that reason.

 

[mcnach]

I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.

I think it's a great idea and I'm starting to add a passive tone control (functional all the time, before the preamp) so that I can have that tone control in active or passive form.
I love what a passive tone control does.

 

[DWBass]

I had one on a custom bass I owned (no longer own). I think it was a Norstrand pre IIRC. It was useful if you really wanted to remove treble (turning down the treble as well) from your sound. I rarely used it though. You can get a real dubby sound if that's what you're going for. I think adjusting the treble on your bass and amp are enough. At least in my case.

 

[Aloe]

You can have a tone with an active blend preamp, the tone control just has to be a dual gang pot with dual capacitors that keeps the two pickup signals independent- John East had this option on some of his preamps.

some of his current offerings (j-tone, j-retro deluxe, uni-pre 4/5 knob) feature a passive tone control that's active both in passive and active modes tho. but of course the active blend doesn't work in passive mode.

not sure if it's a dual-gang pot inside. I had a dual-gang pot in my preamp once, it was used to use the pot as passive tone in passive mode and as active treble control in active mode. but that's a different story to a passive tone control before the active preamp.

actually when I talked about 'some preamps with active blend' I didn't mean, it's not possible on any preamps with active blend, so I don't think we disagree in anything.

 

[groooooove]

rolling down the tone vs rolling off the treble are two different sounds, so it stands to reason you'd want it available whether the preamp is on or not.

 

[sindicado]

I find it useful to have the roll off tone both in passive and active mode.

 

[sawzalot]

I've had a tone knob in the circuit before the active preamp, and I like it. It does limit what the active treble has to work with, i.e. if the tone knob rolls off all the treble frequencies before the active circuit, there's no way to add in frequencies that have been removed. But it is useful to take the high brittle 'edge' off the sound.

John East preamps frequently have a tone knob, along with the VTC control in the Sadowsky onboard preamp. So it's definitely something that mainstream preamp manufacturers include in their designs.

 

[Delsan]

Mayones basses have this. It's definitely nice to have, it has an entirely different feel than messing with the onboard eq and grants you even more tone sculpting.

Scott Devine also uses this, and claims it's an essential piece for his instruments.

 

[Rib 13]

My Yamaha RBX774 and RBX775 basses are active basses with just a tone control and no EQ bands

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.

!6 Tons (Er IE Ford) when I was about 3. I told my dad it reminded me of ( stair) steps going down to our basement.

 

[MingusBass]

All of my F Bass have a tone knob that works in active mode. I find it quite useful.

 

[Acoustic356]

Most of my active basses have a tone knob. It's different than just rolling off the treble control.

 

[tb-player]

I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.

I have owned a number of active basses with an overall tone knob. Most had the John East J-Retro01 preamp. I have an MTD coming next month that is active, but will have an overall tone knob. I think every active bass should have one.

 

[themickster]

I customized my bass and initially had the active/passive instruments separated, with the preamp EQ on active only and the tone knob on passive only, because my luthier told me that having the tone knob on both would roll off the treble of active mode.

But I've been using my active bass lately and thinking it would be nice to have a tone knob, and while it's nice to have a tone knob in the passive state, I think it would also sound nice to have a tone knob in the boosted state, so what do you guys think?

I don't speak English very well so I might be coming across a bit wrong, please tell me if I am.

My SR600E and SR2600 have a passive/active switch. Active has treble, middle and bass cut/boost. Passive bypasses middle and bass, and makes the treble into cut only.

 

[micguy]

The tone control on a passive bass does...a very different thing than what most active treble eq's do. At the top of its range, it does essentially nothing to your sound, other than a tiny bit of damping to the hid mid frequency peak that's formed by the inductance of you pickups resonating with the cable capacitance and their own built in capacitance. Someone telling you that having a passive tone control on your active bass will roll off the high end doesn't really understand what's going on.

When you turn the tone control down on a passive bass, for the top half of its rotation, all it does is add more damping - lowering that high mid peak. In that range, the value of the tone capacitor is essentially meaningless - you can change it up or down by a factor of 10, and it really won't affect things much at all. The rolloff in the treble stays where it's at, it doesn't roll off any more - it's not the same as a treble control in an active circuit.

Below about half, the tone control now does roll off some high frequencies, and as you get close to the bottom of the rotation, the value of the capacitor now does matter quite a bit. It's never a shelf filter, like most active filters - they are just different things.

 

[micguy]

My Sadowsky P5 was my first bass to have an active preamp with passive tone (called VTC, for Vintage Tone Control). Long story short, nearly all of my actives have one. Boosting active treble and cutting passive tone typically results in a high mid/presence boost - or merely softens the edge as needed. Ingenious combo IMO.

On a Sadowsky, the eq sections are boost only - "flat" is with them "off". If you want to turn down the treble, you absolutely need a passive tone control on a Sadowsky - the preamp can't do that.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I think you got your question across fine.

I totally see the need for a tone knob in passive mode (my player plus PJ does not have this and I miss it), but can you not just turn down the treble and a bit of mids to achieve the same result as a tone knob in active mode? I would argue that it's not needed. But don't let that stop you--it's your bass!

I have found that turning down the treble on the onboard preamp of a bass is nowhere near the same as turning down the tone knob on a Precision or Jazz

 

[S.F.Sorrow]

I think a passive tone control in active mode is a GREAT idea, if it's done right.

The lack of a passive tone control is the main reason I don't like many active basses. And no, you can NOT roll off the tone in the same way with an active eq. The tone gets ruined long before it mellows out to where I want it.

The wonderful fattening of the tone that happens when a passive tone control hits the "sweetspot" (which for me is at around 65-70% with a logarithmic pot) is absolutely crucial for the kind of tone I want. Active tone controls just can't do this.

 

[Wasnex]

It's not something I would want...but if you like it .

I prefer active basses, but normally run the tone controls in their center detentes when I am dialing in my sound. To get my sound I prefer to use the controls on the amp. Then during the show I adjust the bass if I want to vary the tone from one song to the next. If I need more volume or an overall tone change, I reach for the amp.

 

[sunbeast]

some of his current offerings (j-tone, j-retro deluxe, uni-pre 4/5 knob) feature a passive tone control that's active both in passive and active modes tho. but of course the active blend doesn't work in passive mode.

not sure if it's a dual-gang pot inside. I had a dual-gang pot in my preamp once, it was used to use the pot as passive tone in passive mode and as active treble control in active mode. but that's a different story to a passive tone control before the active preamp.

actually when I talked about 'some preamps with active blend' I didn't mean, it's not possible on any preamps with active blend, so I don't think we disagree in anything.

Not trying to prove you wrong, just pointing out for the internet info searches that a typical passive tone option is totally doable even with any active blend control (people without the knowledge of how things work can sometimes read things like this on a thread and make assumptions that it isn’t a possibility, so clarity of information has value). The John East units do this by essentially just stacking dual tone controls under a single knob positioned before the active circuitry so that you are effecting each pickup equally but independently. Of course you can add a typical single gang passive tone after the active blend in a circuit, but it won’t behave the same way as we are used to from a passive bass, with a much more subtle and shallow response until you turn the tone all the way off (EMG passive tone controls when paired with their active pickups are a great example of this)