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Amp Recomendation - Aguilar DB751 but smaller?
- Thread starter socialleper
- Start date
Excluding my first amp ever, a POC Acoustic combo long ago, the only amps I've ever had or used are a Ampeg SVT's, B-15N, GK800RB, and MB WD-800. With WD-800 I generally use the lowest damping control setting. My points of reference, comparison, and understanding are therefore as much limited.
I'm like you, in that I have the DB-751 too, and love it, and have wondered if I could get somewhat close to it with a smaller amp. At this point I just think not.
I discovered the Sonic Farm Tantra while searching for a tube D.I. and it looks great and is getting rave reviews about it's warm sound, and has a ton of power too, for reasons that are explained herein. It's not cheap though. Still, nothing is likely to replace the DB.
Sonic Farm Pro Audio | Creamer Pentode Preamp | 2di4 Pentode Direct Box | Tantra Bass Pentode Tube Preamplifier
I discovered the Sonic Farm Tantra while searching for a tube D.I. and it looks great and is getting rave reviews about it's warm sound, and has a ton of power too, for reasons that are explained herein. It's not cheap though. Still, nothing is likely to replace the DB.
Sonic Farm Pro Audio | Creamer Pentode Preamp | 2di4 Pentode Direct Box | Tantra Bass Pentode Tube Preamplifier
I have compared my svt7 against the db751 and I swear I could make both sound the same.
Do not engage the ultra low on the Ampeg w a little bit of EQ and there you go .
Anyway, everytime I have played Aguilar I thought I was playing some Ampeg stuff.
This. Heft, slam, and a versatile (if tricky) EQ, in a package that your chiropractor will approve.
It kind of depends on how you're pushing, using, and shaping the 751, right? I've heard guys live that have it super fat, deep, and warm with some pillowy qualities. Then I hear someone like Paul Turner use one, and it's got some teeth on the upper end and cuts like a knife, with notes just popping off his amp. The heft/power is a big part of it across the spectrum, but finding an amp that mimics how you use the 751 could result in slightly different options I think.
Get an Aguilar 659 Preamp and stab it into the return of a lightweight amp or poweramp of sorts. It’s based off the DB750 but it’ll be the closest to that Aguilar sound. I use one for my ears since I ditched amps and it sounds damn close to my 751 factoring weight in.
Can't get rid of my amp and cab. An ampless setup can't be trusted in the places a play.
It’s not like you have to use in ears with the 659. DB751 is 42 lbs. the DB659 pre is 6 lbs. You can get a 600 watt baby sumo power amp that weighs 3 lbs, throw it all in a small roto, and save yourself 30 lbs. Run whatever cab you want and you’re good to go…
I blame the Ampeg 810. These cabs have a very poor low end extension but to a lot of people this is still THE classic bass tone. I guess it makes sense that others try to emulate that tone. Many modern Class D amps seem to be voiced kinda like an Ampeg WITH an 810, completely lacking the low end "heft" of many older tube amps (including SVTs with a DIFFERENT cab than the 810). It's probably also cheaper to manufacture amps that can't deliver the low end heft you get with classic tube amps like Hiwatts, etc.
For me it's also VERY much about how Class D amps respond when I dig in. They somehow manage to feel spiky and stiff at the same time. I nearly always feel like something is holding me back when playing Class D amps. A couple of brands feel slightly better to me than others but I massivly prefer the dynamic response I get from classic tube amps.
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I've been using the DB751 as my main head for the past couple of years. I have yet to find a lighter head that matches it's tone.
To be fair, that's your perception based on an equation with a lot of variables. The reality is that the endpoint for most PA setups (at least those at a higher/pro level) is D-class power amps pushing your signal out into the venue through whatever system they have. Point being, class D (lighter weight) power can reproduce those subs without issue. In fact, there have been double blind tests demonstrating most listeners can't identify the difference between class D and other power amps when the preamp topology is the same. So, your next comment (and one that was made by others in this thread) is more likely the issue - i.e. manufacturer's intent/design.
Maybe all of the above. I have always preferred the quickness and feel I get from solid state amps, although I've owned and liked some tube heads. In my experience, the qualities that differentiate them a lot are hard to define & describe, like speed and texture. It's the way they respond really, not a lack of capability in reproducing frequencies. Some of the factors you mentioned above will just affect those qualities in various ways. Also, that may be why I like the sound of the DB751 a lot. I feel like it gets lumped in with tube heads a lot because of the weight of the amp and the slam/heft/whatever that players use to describe it. What I hear is quick, cutting, authoritative tone. Not something I would typically characterize as synonymous with tube amps being pushed.
This again speaks to perception. My experience says that pumping frequencies under 40-50Hz brings out boom and mud that can overpower the punch and definition in my signal. The latter is where I perceive 'heft'. I get that there's a beauty to pant-flapping power behind you on stage, but they aren't pushing that stuff through the PA for a reason.
You allude to this with the comment on cabinets not reproducing those frequencies. If you send a DI signal before your amp/amp EQ, they FOH is usually rolling you off with an HPF somewhere around (maybe above) 40 Hz. If you're mic'ing a cab for the FOH, your cab is doing that for you.
Perhaps I've beat this to death, but you're presenting this as a dichotomy rather than a range. I've heard bass that is really cutting, grindy, and/or treble heavy - that can also be "full" if done well. On the contrary, I've heard people using big mosfet or tube amps that sound like a flabby, wet blanket. It's all relative, and there's no magic bullet. Being able to dial in your sound and slot yourself together as a band is really important to sounding good live, regardless of the head you're using. I enjoy playing some palm muted, scooped, bass heavy stuff at home. If I brought that tone to my band mix, it would be a terrible fit. Tools for the job...
Counterpoint, I don't dig the ampeg sound, and I have played a lot of class D heads in the last 7-8 years. Unless you scoop the EQ or engage some sub-bass EQ, I find most of them do not sounds like Ampegs.
Also, that last statement is based in zero evidence or technical data whatsoever. It's more expensive to produce and maintain tube-amps, sure. Low end 'heft' is really a matter of having enough power/headroom to reproduce those notes efficiently, EQing the amps properly, and having a cabinet that can handle what you're feeding it. It's cheaper to manufacture less powerful amps in general, regardless of the topology. So if you want the heft of a 200 watt HiWatt or a 1000 watt solid state amp for the price of a 50 watt bass combo, that's just having unrealistic expectations.
I have to agree with you here about the tone of the 751. There is something authoritative about it. It reacts quickly to my playing and delivers the notes with precision. When I was trying to EQ my D800+ to match it just felt like something was missing. I don't know if it is EQ or just power management. I play a lot of quick notes and really dig into the strings, but it never gets messy. It just does it.
It is truly the perfect amp I've used so far, but I think that is what scares me about it. These aren't cheap, and they do have tubes. I'm worried something is going to happen to it. Same with the Spector Euro 5 I use with it. Those are my tone. So much so that I don't know what would happen if something happened to that bass, amp, or cab. I'd be SOL.
I have an 800+, which I really like. The one that made it into a backup is the Berg Forte HP. It’s just a stupid amount of power and the EQ/tone shaping options are perfect for my needs.
I’m like you in terms of playing some snappy, faster lines. If an amp gives or feels sluggish, those lines just get blurry and lose their authority. This thing has the responsiveness I want (quickness) with punch, power, and headroom. They’re not cheap, but it’s kept me from looking elsewhere for amps for while. It’s also a great pedal platform if you play with dirt or other effects. I wasn’t thrilled with the Berg cabs. So the Subway cabs + Berg head is my go to.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I’ve played the standard Forte D (800 watts), but not the B|Amp series. Reason being I like that the Forte controls are WYSIWG, aside from the drive circuit on the HP. I just wouldn’t use all the programming on the BAmp.
And the HP was my preference over the D for a few reasons:
- Has adjustable comp & drive if you want them.
- Has the “punch” switch, which is some special sauce in a mix.
- Has the adjustable LPF (I like running my tweeter on my top cab and then fine tuning the LPF on the amp to tame any harshness/fizz from my dirt pedals).
- 400 more watts of headroom.
I have one and agree. Never had a chance to A/B one with a 751, but I've played plenty of backlined 751s and it definitely feels more similar than others to me. Especially through an 810 or 215.
What do you put your BoBW in to move it around?
I don't hate the idea of this amp because I'm a Lovecraft nerd.
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