Double Bass Audio Sprockets ToneDexter

#841
What you describe is unexpected. At the end of training, but before saving the WaveMap, if you cycle through Pickup-TD-Mic does the TD WaveMap sound significantly more bassy/boomy than the mic? It shouldn't. At this point you'll be listening with phones most likely. Try flipping the polarity switch on the back and see if that changes your perception.
 
#843
Looking for Tonedexter advice:

I have tried this pedal on several different string basses, many vintage and contemporary mics, 3 different pickups, multiple performance locations, new cords, different electrical outlets, bow and pizzicato training...

In every case I get weird distortion, a metallic sound on release of the string (with gut or steel strings).

I sent the pedal to Audiosprockets and the best they could do was update the firmware, which made no difference. I even loaned it to a fellow bassist who got exactly the same results with his bass and gear.

When I contacted the company when it continued to distort, their comment:

"I am sure the unit is working properly. Either alter your training technique, change pickups, or both. If that doesn’t get you there, you can always sell it on the used market. It’s very hot right now."

I find this answer to be unsatisfactory. It is clear that Audiosprockets does not back up the equipment they sell.

Has anyone had this distortion experience with the Tonedexter? How did you solve it?

And how would you respond to the suggestion that if it doesn't work, sell it?
 
#844
I've had a ToneDexter for a while now. The only time I notice the sound being "metallic" sound is while wearing headphones during the training/demo phase.

Setting up a ToneDexter for Double Bass does seem to be a little more difficult than an acoustic guitar. I think it's just the variability and complexity of the instrument itself.

I've set it up on a ply bass with Thomastik Weich, and an old Tyrolean with Helicore Hybrids. I've been able to successfully program multiple slots and also create a wave-map in my DAW that I could use on my Yamaha SLB-200. All of them sounded great.

However... it's wasn't an easy road in the beginning. I think I initially tried to make things more complex than I needed to and my WAV sounded a little thin (maybe that's the metallic sound you're referring to?). So I experimented with a few different mics and placement. For the plywood bass the sweet spot was a condenser mic set with a figure 8 pattern on the treble side just above the F-Hole about 3 feet away.

In contrast, I just recorded a new WAV on the Tyrolean using a Supercardioid dynamic mic about 10 inches away from the F-hole on the treble side and it was almost perfect.

I also learned that I have to be fairly selective on the blend I use. For the ply bass I use the character knob set at 1, but slightly rotated towards character 2 (there's a slight amount of play between the two, maybe it makes a difference maybe it doesn't).

For the Tyrolean, I think I have it set on the percentage portion of the dial but I don't recall exactly where.

If you want to go the DAW route, you can really dive deep into sculpting your sound. I think I posted how I did it on this thread somewhere. I think I used a condenser and a ribbon and blended them with a nice EQ curve in my DAW (Reaper). It took a while, but it allowed me to use the ToneDexter with the Yamaha using the ply bass as a sound donor.

As far as the suggestion on selling it. I don't have a good response for that but I know there haven't been many ToneDexters produced since the pandemic, so they are in demand.

As far as communicating with James, I've reached out to him several times and always had stellar interactions. I can't and won't speculate about the interactions of others, but I do feel bad if you feel you've had a sub-optimal experience.
 
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#847
Thanks for your thoughts, Hasty.

The distortion is not a thin sound - it more closely sounds like the strings have aluminum foil loosely wrapped around them, and when they are plucked there is an instantaneous metallic sound that quickly dissipates. Mic placement did not have any impact on the distortion, nor did input level.

My issue with the company is that I know of at least one instance where they had to replace a Tonedexter because it malfunctioned. I would expect similar treatment, but was instead told "user error", and if you don't like that, tough. I consider that very poor customer service. Of course, your experience may vary.
 
#848
A distortion at the beginning of a plucked note typically is an indicator that an input is overloaded by the starting peaks of the signal.

It is possible that the input gain cannot change that because the gain control sits after the first input amplifier that might get overloaded.
This could be the pickup or the mic input, but typically this might be the pickup input.

The only way to change this is a reduction of amplitude before the pickup enters the ToneDexter.
The easiest way is to use a capacitive damper for a passive piezo input.
Or you use a preamp that does not get overdriven by its input stage and reduce the output.
At least for testing that would be helpful.

A capacitive damper puts a capacitor between hot and ground and together with the capacity of the piezo reduces the signal level.
The best value for a pickup depends on the pickup. Typical values are 1 to 10 nF, maybe up to 47 nF.
The capacitor could be inserted into the plug of a short extension cable.

If this doesn’t help (specially experimenting with the preamp) then you might want contact the company again, as the unit might be defect.

If you know anybody else with a ToneDexter in your region, you might want to copy his slots in your device and let him/her try it with their bass.
 
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#849
Hi All -

It's been a while since I've checked in on this thread. After the initial year or two of experimentation, I've ended up using the same wave map continuously (and happily) for the last year or so. I've been using the character and tone knobs to control definition, and had the notch set at 70 to control a particularly resonant frequency.
But now I see that the firmware is at version 2.06, and the notch filter now provides "continuously variable smart feedback reduction".
Has anybody been making version 2+ wave maps and using the version 2+ notch filters? Should I upgrade my firmware and open up this brand new can of worms? ;-)

Thanks - still loving my TD.

Allan
 
#850
In the new version the training phase is much faster. I miss the notch, though. I also used to set mine at 70, which is close to the troublesome open D string. I do use the notch, which is now the anti feedback knob; it's at about noon generally. Of course your experience may differ, but for me I don't think the upgrade was an improvement. I also use the same map pretty much all the time. I'm a neurotic string experimenter, and it doesn't seem to matter. I've made new maps after a string change, and still go back to my old reliable. I don't use the Dex on every gig. Sometimes the extra hassle of setting it up and tweaking it is not worth it. I don't know why more bassists don't use the Dex. I guess if it were a little cheaper, maybe in the $300 range I'd see more, though when I look at the pedal and gadget arrays on some of these posts and read about the mics people are buying they come to a lot of money. I wonder what sort of gigs these guys are doing? These days I find myself often playing for $100 and I show up with a $12000 bass, a $250 pickup, a $400 preamp (tonedexter), and if there's no house amp, another $1000 in amp and speaker. I guess that's what we do.
 
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#852
lurk said:
These days I find myself often playing for $100 and I show up with a $12000 bass, a $250 pickup, a $400 preamp (tonedexter), and if there's no house amp, another $1000 in amp and speaker. I guess that's what we do.
Click to expand...

So much truth in this statement.


I’m at my Sunday brunch gig now with my ToneDexter and loving the sound.
 
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#854
I agree with everything that’s been said here. I’ve got two wavemaps that I use, one made with a DPA d-vote that provides more definition, and one made with an AMT 25b which provides a somewhat more bassy sound. I actually keep a third wavemap for use with electric bass. It doesn’t make it sound acoustic, but does provide a richer, bigger sound. I also love the notch filter and also set it at 72 to tame that boomy D string. I definitely wouldn’t want to lose that, and have no use for a variable feedback control as I never have a problem with feedback. I almost always set the character knob to 98% mic. The knob that I tend to tweak the most is the bass knob, which in v.2.01 (the latest upgrade I’ve installed) is a combination hpf/bass shelving control. If the sound seems a little “thick,” I’ll set this at -1.5 to -2.5 to make it “leaner.” This seems to work much better than the hpf on my AI Claris SL, which seems more like “all or nothing.” I think it’s important to keep in mind that the TD reverts back to the version that was in place when you made any particular wavemap, so if you do the latest upgrade, you don’t lose the notch function for any wavemap you’ve already made with an earlier version. Also, I think you can also downgrade to an earlier version of the firmware if you don’t like the latest version.

I also don’t get why more bassists don’t use the TD; no one else has even heard of it in my neck of the woods! Is the extra “air” that a mic provides when heard in a live situation in the mix of other instruments really worth the hassles of feedback, bleed, preamps, phantom power, etc. that go along with using a mic in a live situation?
 
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#855
Reviving this thread after reading all 43 pages, as I got my hands on a 'legacy' Tonedexter. A long way back in this thread I mentioned helping a friend train his Tonedexter on his acoustic guitar. Lucky me, he recently forked out and bought a new Tonedexter II and I got his 'old' one.
I have installed the bass firmware (2.06). Over the last 3 or 4 weeks I have done a few training sessions and I think I have the process down now.
I think I may be the first person to use the Tonedexter with a Schertler Dyn-B. First couple of tries at training were so-so. Then I realised I need to put the pickup somewhere that has plenty of highs so it has been moved from above the E bridge foot back to the midline of the bass a little above the bridge. This gives the dex more highs to work with.

For training I am using an AT 2035 condenser about 30cm from the end of the fingerboard, either straight in front or angled in from the G side, and playing arco. I set the levels just long slow bowing open A and D strings, and the whole training process has become very quick now I have had some practice. I did try using my Remic white for training and got some very workable wavemaps but they were a little overly bassy to my taste. I tried all three recommended locations - fingerboard, bridge, tailpiece with the Remic and each had their own 'flavour' and could work with some careful use of the notch and bass controls.

All the usual Dyn-B quirks are ironed out completely and I get a beautiful warm tone just like the mic. I have received several compliments on the tone over the last 4 or 5 gigs. The small tweak of the 'notch' control works really well to tame any boominess around B flat which can happen with my bass. I usually have the 'bass' set at around -2 to -3 which I think is a HPF setting of roughly 40 to 70 Hz.

I watched James May's interview about the TD II () and it sounds like a great advance. I will be helping my guitarist friend with his TD II and I am so glad it was released so I could get hold of the original model!
 
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#856
Thanks for taking the time to write this. I own a Dyn-C (same as the B just with a long cord instead) and had owned a ToneDexter in the past, but not both at the same time. I’ve always wondered if the two would work well together. I’d be interested in hearing your follow-up after you’ve used that setup over time and whether or not you decided to make it permanent.
 
#857
Glad to see this thread get some new life. Makes me re-evaluate where I'm at with things from time to time.

I haven't been using the ToneDexter as much lately and really gave that some thought today. It always travels with the Yamaha SLB200 and they're an amazing pairing. I did notice I'm not using it for acoustic DB gigs anymore, but I think I've figured out why. I've been using more powered cabs lately and the ToneDexter just doesn't have the oomph I need to drive powered speakers. I've also switched to the Yamahiko and haven't done much with it, which is odd because it seems like they'd be a great pairing. But I've been on the DIY preamp rabbit hole for a while now and that conflicts with the ToneDexter mission.

I've also learned I'm not a huge fan of the DI out on the ToneDexter. I used it a few times at clubs where I just plugged into the PA and it didn't seem to sound as good as I expected it to. I should explore that a little more, is it the room or the DI that I don't like?

As I sit here staring at a shelf full of preamps, I'm thinking the ToneDexter and the SushiBox Nobelium might make a really nice combo. A sound I like, with a sound I really like, and plenty of preamp oomph to get to the speaker. Probably make for a really nice fly rig as well.
 
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#858
Here is my setup. I am using the TD's DI set to variable level, and it drives my Headrush FRFR108 powered speaker with no effort.
The XLR to TS converter is a Hosa. I have a Shure converter as well, but I dislike the built-in TS connector that supports the weight of the whole thing, and has the potential to damage the input socket on the TD. The Hosa sounds comparable to the Shure.
mydex.jpg​
I am using a Lithium 12V battery for power.
 
#859
A dozen gigs later and I am loving the Tonedexter. I have had a lot of positive comments about the sound I am getting.

I am still messing around with training. So far I have tried AT2035, Rode GO lavalier, Remic D540 ('white') and I recently had very good results with a cheap Behringer ECM8000 'reference mic'. I am using arco throughout the LVL and TL steps. Open A and D long slow notes in LVL get a quick result for me. Then some double stops and up and down the fingerboard in the TL step. Training is usually very quick (2.06 BAS firmware).

The trick seems to be getting each mic at a suitable distance where it is providing an optimal signal level, and positioning it so it is picking up sounds from f-holes, table, fingerboard in the balance you are looking for. The reference mic wavemap sounds like my bass, no hyped parts of the spectrum (omni mic so no proximity effect).

I also just today recorded a training session with the Remic slipped under the bridge. Remic straight into my H5, Dyn B in via my Hosa adaptor to mimic my live setup as closely as possible.

I then applied a bit of high pass filtering and a little notch at B flat (which booms a bit on my bass) to the recorded mic track in the DAW. I then played back into the TD from my computer with the mic channel of the recording going through a Behringer DI with -20dB pad selected. I used a headphones to split RCAs lead with RCA/6.5mmm TS adaptors. This gave very promising results and I will be tweaking the DAW filter preset and working with this a bit more. I recorded a LVL step way longer than required, so I manually skipped forward to the training part of the audio as soon as the TL step showed up on the TD.

Good sound on gigs plus plenty of nerdy fun at home! The SLB200 will be getting some attention soon, now I have DAW training sorted.
 
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