Banter between songs and iPads

#22
silky smoove said:
the high production value shows have pre-written banter at specific times that's delivered verbatim night after night
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I think too many bands don't understand how dialed in and precisely planned a truly great performance needs to be
you can "plan" for spontaneous moments but the performance needs to be arranged as carefully as the music
to leave an entire set up to chance, or hope something compelling magically arises is a mistake
 
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#23
Altitude said:
Joe Jackson tells stories about the songs during his set. They’re almost as entertaining as the songs are. Same with Lyle Lovett!
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And Richard Thompson and Shawn Colvin and Lori McKenna and on and on... Something I picked up on seeing Shawn Colvin: Storytelling gives cover for tuning changes between practically every song.

Mrs. and I had the good fortune to see LL and John Hiatt on a "Two Guys Sitting Around on Couches Trading Songs and Telling Stories" tour pre-Covid.
 
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#24
Wow. Thanks for all the nuanced responses and input. Much appreciated. The iPads have perplexed me (with our situation) because they use / stare at them on songs they have rehearsed / performed dozens of times. Surely you can sing that song in your sleep and ... as mentioned above ... visually engage / interact with the crowd? I totally get it as a paper substitute for set list, tune down / nuance reminder, etc. notes, new songs, and other reasons mentioned above.....but again...you've performed this song many many times! Stop staring at it and engage the f*ng crowd! Ha. Banter wise ... ala Joe Jackson or Lyle Lovett ... 100% agree it. I saw Paul McCartney about 10 years and his banter and stories were integral to the show. But we're ...uhhhh....a cover band and this guy is corny but thinks he's being funny before every song. Several people have told me over the years (with other band) something to the effect of "You guys let it rip and it sounds like the radio when I was young. That's what I want to hear." That's what I'm trying to get through to this guy...we're a cover band and people want to hear the radio of their youth...not you run your mouth between songs. Oh well ... I'm having enough fun with it and will continue to try and create the conditions by which they convince themselves (easier said than done) rather than being an ass about it. Thanks again for all the replies.
 
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#26
So Anyway, I don't think the ADD guy will change. That's either his nature/disability or he's had friends in the past laugh at his antics and he thinks he's entertaining. It will be very frustrating to try to change him into something he's not wired to be and to make this group a 'show' band reeling off one song after another.

I agree that some artists are great at introducing a song with a little backstory. I saw John Fogerty a couple of weeks ago and his reflections on how some of his hits came about were heartfelt and often amusing...and the audience was interested. Marty Stuart is another one who can pull this off. Not many groups are at this level.

I worked with a singer who used a tablet for her songs and her harmony parts. That meant every song had to be in order so that she didn't have to search. It was hard to deal with. I bring a lyric book for some of the songs I sing or the new songs that we're familiar with but haven't rehearsed. With a lyric/chord sheet, I can be doing a song immediately. Our little trio likes to keep bringing new songs into our sets. But we're not a 'show' band. But we always try to connect with the audience, asking for requests, birthdays, etc.

You've had 10 years to develop your 80s band into a polished show band, and this new group is going to take some time. Good luck with your decision.
 
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#28
I don’t like iPads or paper on stage for rock/pop gigs. Did a ton of rock/pop cover gigs ’70-90s and no one ever used cheat sheets or music stands on stage. And that was 4-5 sets, 5 or 6 nights a week. This was in a fairly large metro area around Puget Sound. It looks tacky and seems lame.
I moved to a very small rural setting mid ‘90s and everyone here uses paper on stage. I don’t like it and don’t use cheat stuff myself - but I’m used to learning a large amount of material and it’s more fun to be paper free. Allows more eye contact and presence to offer to the crowd - if that makes sense.

My exception is jazz gigs where I do depend on paper. The chords are way more complicated and my ear for jazz really isn't what it should be. Didn’t put in the time to completely learn the Great American Standard and BeBop Song Book - my bad - being more of a rock/pop/R&B working musician. It’s one thing to hear simple 4 note major/minor rock chords and follow along; a lot harder for me to hear 10 note colorful full chords in endless inversions and substitute progressions. The jazzers don’t like me having paper on stage any more than me not liking rockers using crutches.

As far as banter depends who’s doing it and how good they are at it. It’s nice to have a banter break between every fourth or fifth song out of a set of 12-15 toons. It breaks up the evening, gives both audience and players a sec to breath, and it establishes friendly rapport with an audience, giving the feeling of an intimate social event — which it is! It beats dead air where players are ignoring the audience self absorbed in whatever. Seems crowds are used to this - but does seem weak, imo. The deal in my present band situation is hardly anybody in any local bands does much banter. Even in my band I do most of the banter, even tho I’m just the bass player who doesn’t sing any leads (tons of backups) and am not spectacular at it, but know from experience how to do it - but it isn’t all that natural for me - seems like the lead singer or songwriter should be the emcee. I play in all original bands for the last 20 years, so it’s a bit different - not like “we’re” looking to “make it big” - but the songs are dynamite and I’m not going to be the pushy “know it all” laying down rules. Just try to lead by example = be prepared, be on time, be sober/clean so I can do my gig well and have fun!! peace
 
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#29
ryco said:
Did a ton of rock/pop cover gigs ’70-90s and no one ever used cheat sheets or music stands on stage. And that was 4-5 sets, 5 or 6 nights a week.
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Yeah, with that kind of frequency it's pretty easy to memorize things. That and we were on the road sitting in the hotel all day practicing and it was my only job. Playing one night a week for less money than I made back then and maintaining full time day job that will pay the bills and probably partially subsidizing the once a week gig? You get iPads and paper, as much as I hate it too. Especially necessary when the song selection varies so much from gig to gig.
 
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#30
No iPads, unless there's a sub situation.
Minimal, targeted banter, but we do slip at times. We attempt to have no dead air, so if the guitarist breaks a string, we may need to banter a bit during the transition.

I was in a band for a short time with a keys player who fancied himself a DJ or comedian. He was neither, and not the band leader. Cringy banter between every song. And creepy call-outs to young ladies who didnt appreciate them.

I left due to that annoyance and avoid subbing with any band in which he's involved.
 
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#31
1. Sadly i am seeing vocalists have lyrics on a pad or sheet more and more often. I think we can all agree that memorizing lyrics is better, but i personally don't have a huge amount of heartburn over a singer doing this as long as they sing well.

2. I generally like minimal time between tunes but i also think banter is good when done well. Sadly alot of people just aren't that good at it, so in those cases it should be minimized.
 
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#32
I had the opposite problem where our singer would never talk to the audience if there was an instrument switch or whatever, so I took over banter. It's harder than people think, but I'm doing it for the last few gigs. When you want something done right...
 
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#33
Banter between songs can be good...if the person doing it knows what they're doing, and keeps it brief. You also don't stop every frickin' song. Play 3 or 4 songs, introduce the band (the name of the band, not every member). Play a few more, say hi, we're happy to be here. Play a few more...etc,

As it turns out, talent in that department is very rare. If you don't have someone who is good at it, nixing it is better than having awkward banter.

I've never played with someone who uses an ipad who connected with the audience well - it's too big a distraction, and the audience can sense that you're not communicating with THEM. Learn the material. Some of my bigger gigs I'm one of 15 or so people on stage, I'm the least visible (n the back behind a line of 8 singers), and I still never use an ipad - when everyone in the band knows their stuff, and looks at each other and the audience, it's always a better gig. The information you need to do your job well is not on your ipad - it's all around you. Smile at someone, or everyone.

When I prepare for a gig, when I get to thinking I know the material well enough, I will sometimes play through a set of music with my eyes closed - I need to know I can play without looking at my fingers - that is a very useful skill. A couple of the bands I've played in, we would practice in the dark. That is a good exercise - a band that can do this will impress people. I've actually been through a couple times on stage where the lights failed, and the band finished the tune in the dark. That impresses an audience - I was surprised by how much, but it absolutely does.
 
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#34
I see bands like this as falling into one of two categories: Either it's a band designed by a person or group of individuals with the intent of making money, or it's one guy or a couple who are just doing their thing and the money is more of a byproduct of that. The guys in the second category do not change because they are not putting on a show, they are putting themselves in front of a microphone, ADHD and all. There isn't a mask or a persona, they see themselves as the show.

The challenge as a side man is to recognize what a gig is, and is not, and adjust your expectations rather than trying to change it. A loose, sloppy band that is projecting their own personal issues into the show is not suddenly going to convert into a tight, polished show band with scripted banter. Expecting them to do that is really on you, and it's an impossible ask that not only will never happen, but will bleed you completely dry trying to force it.

As for tech, lots of acts use it, from local wedding bands to international touring groups. I had a band leader tell me once not to bring a music stand because it didn't "look right" so I asked him if he prefers it to look good or sound good, and if he can't pick one then he can pay me enough to quit my other gigs and then I'll happily memorize his songs faster. I've had plenty of gigs where an iPad made us a lot of extra money because you can pull up just about any request and play it on the spot. That makes a difference if requests cost $20-$100 each.
 
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#35
For on stage help, use it rather than wreck the song. I sometime use cheat sheets on the floor because I have so many tracks to cover off..If you are singing, its double that work.

Good front men/women are able to talk or engage with the audience. Just be natural and thats part of the job.
If you can't engage, dont force it but its a fundamental part of fronting, imv just as actually being able to sing or play is.
 
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#36
If someone is playing parts of the song in the wrong order, it doesn't matter whether its ADD or being unprepared, it needs to be addressed accordingly. If the person can't get it right, you gotta replace him. It's really that simple.

As for ipads. From a perspective of someone in the audience, I don't mind them but they should be a tool, not a crutch. For reference, the best local band here uses them but they are always adding new songs and it's more of a safety net than something you are continuously staring at. It can look professional enough with proper mic stand holders.

Last but not the least - band members who don't have stage presence and don't connect (whatever that word might mean to you here) with the audience won't suddenly start doing that just because you took away their tablets.
Banter - it can be great when used right to break a tough bored crowd two or three songs into it, just saying. It's not always bad but you gotta read the room.

As far as dead air goes, try connecting songs that are in similar tempo and in the same key. You gotta fine tune the transition a bit at rehearsals but usually the simplest solution presents itself.
 
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#37
1. Nothing wrong with notes/tablet on stage. Everything wrong with not engaging the crowd, especially the lead singer.

2. Every second of silence between songs seems like 10 to the audience. You aren't Bruce Springsteen - they are there for the music. Anything more than a second or two is bad.
 
#38
htown098 said:
Sorry in advance for the long post...but to establish context....

I have been in an 80's cover band for the past 10 years, by and large serving as band leader. We have/had a great team of talented individuals (I'm an adequate bassist, stay in my lane, and just execute my part for every song) and had become pretty tight and polished.

I say "had" a great team, as our drummer and his wife (female vocals), both in their early 30's, are expecting their first child and understandably taking a hiatus for the time being. Our lead guitarist, rhythm / vocals, and I are all in our mid 50's. Our keys player is in his early 30's. We already have a new drummer lined up and discussing whether to find another female vocalist or just eliminate female vox songs from any given set.

As band leader, I utilized football as a team analogy of sorts in that we are going to run 30-40 plays per game. Every play is going to score a touchdown if everyone executes their part. On some plays you get to catch / throw / run the winning touchdown. On other plays you have to block. Everyone was expected to show up for rehearsal prepared to perfect every play. We had great communication in regard to specific key, structure, arrangement, etc. for all new additions to the playbook. We all understood that rehearsal essentially was not for learning new plays. Rather, rehearsal was for perfecting the new plays we had studied on our own. As such, when we hit the stage, we all knew there were going to be some brain lapses here and there, but it damn sure wasn't going to happen for lack of preparation. As such, we developed a good following of people who complimented us on being tight / polished and executing a big variety of 80's popular to "forgot about that song!' fun obscure songs. We were booking venues on our own, taking the door, putting on a tight show, and getting some private / corporate gigs a few times a year which is all we had time to play. The formula, by and large, worked.

We have/had a fairly hard and fast rule of zero seconds between songs, if possible, with the exception of tuning, instrument switches, tip the bartender, birthday shout outs, etc. which would of course call for situational banter.

Sooo...back up to earlier this year. I was approached by a friend of a friend to play bass for his band as his bassist had moved to another state. He is the drummer. My age. Great guy. He had seen us play a few times and asked me to go have a beer, which we did. He basically said "Join us and help us get organized as we are all over the place musically and organization wise." Set list is an eclectic mix of classic rock, blues, oldies, and new pop namely driven by the lead guitarist / vocalist who is in his mid 60's. Not a bad catalog at all actually...but they were admittedly unorganized in relation to rehearsals and live performances because...the lead guitarist (his uncle with whom he is very close) was essentially the band leader.

The lead guitarist is a wonderful person. There's not a bad bone in his body. He is a good guitarist with a great voice. He is also one of the most ADD people I have ever met. Perhaps THE most ADD person I have ever met. After the first rehearsal, I told my wife "I've never seen a person take a conversation that was clearly heading North and he grabs the wheel and takes a left turn at Albuquerque. Literally every conversation. He obviously can't help himself. Every. Single. Conversation. You have to take the wheel away and turn back North."

We play our first small gig, with majority of people in attendance being friends and family of the drummer and lead guitarist. It's pretty rough. I notice that he has to say SOMETHING lounge act corny to hear himself talk before every song. Like his own Smothers Brothers comedy hour. Or Hee Haw or something. He's actually a quick witted / funny guy in a nerdy way. But...uhhhh. He also goes ham / off script on several songs that resulted in the song being sloppy. My wife tells me "Well...that was pretty rough ...they're not as talented as your other band...it has potential as they're all talented enough. But...he really needs to be a solo lounge act or STFU and just play the songs."

He and the female vocalist (early 30's) also used iPads, which is fine I guess, but to stare at for lyrics for almost every song? Songs that you have played many times? Have you not memorized the lyrics?

We have a few more rehearsals. I politely point out and try to create the conditions by which they convince themselves that memorizing the lyrics is not a bad thing and perhaps a bit more polished. Quick transitions between songs is also a polish thing. Situational banter is perfectly fine....but uhhh...before every song?

We also discussed structure and arrangements. Blues, country, loop jams, etc. ...all cool for jamming and going a little ham. Rock on. We'll follow. With the rest of the set...given we haven't played enough together to be instinctual...how about we agree to a specific studio or live structure so we're all on the same page and everyone commits to muscle memorizing that structure for the sake of tightness? They agree.

We play a few more gigs and get slightly tighter. They still use iPads but I'm somewhat of an ass in rehearsals about banter (the keys player and female vocalist thank me on the side) and song transitions get quicker, the banter goes down, and going ham goes down. He is still ADD as hell...he can't help it...I just have to yank the wheel back to the North.

We played a surprise 50th last Saturday. It goes fairly well actually ... so I'm hair splitting ...but he reverted back to corny banter before every single *!@$%#! song. Crowd was drunk and not really paying attention. My wife was there and told me "I thought he was going to stop doing that?" Ha.

He also goes ADD ham on a couple of structure songs and literally ends the song before the last verse, chorus, or outro. These were both female vox songs and she gives me a *** just happened? look. I just shrug. He was oblivious.

We had also agreed and executed during rehearsal for him and keys to exchange solos on a few country songs. He either went straight to the chorus after his solo ... skipping the keys solo ... or did another solo himself before going to the chorus. The crowd had no idea of course, but keys and I exchanged a glance and shrug.

At any rate...I'm going to stick with it for the time being as it is serving my Jones for the most part and my close friend from my other band just joined to add rhythm, extra lead vocals, and of course we share the same prep / execution philosophy.

My questions...after this mini novel....are:

1. Under what conditions do your vocalists use iPads? Perhaps it shouldn't drive me crazy...but as it stands we're not taking requests on the fly so...they've had ample time to learn their lyrics...so...I don't get it.

2. What are your band rules / guidelines for banter and transition time between songs?

Thanks in advance for your replies and sorry for the long ramble.
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TLDR. You lost me in the locker room.
 
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