Bass Synth Instruments

jimfist

jimfist

"Cling tenaciously to my buttocks!"
Mar 28, 2011
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#1
I've been casually interested in integrating alternative synth/sample/keyboard sounds for live performance and was wondering what the state of the technology was with respect to the instruments themselves used to trigger the sounds.

Obviously, being a bassists, we're talking about:
- GK3B pickup on a traditional bass ( I've never liked this idea, seems like trouble )
- Rob O'Reilly Expressiv MIDI Pro Bass (interesting, long lead time, expensive )
- Willcox Saber HexFX (packaged with GR55...unsure about the lightwave pickups for general use)
- something else I'm not aware of
- or forget about these and just add dedicated synth pedals that use pitch tracking (EHX, SA C4, Future Impact, Boss, etc)?

I'm most interested in a solution that is as stress-free as possible, that also has solid tracking without high latency (looking for as low as possible), and can stand up to the demands of live performances (generally nightclubs). I'd like representations of classic analog and digital samples of various kinds.

I understand this tends to be an expensive endeavor, but if anyone has successfully done this I'd like to know how they went about it and what gear they use to trigger, and the sound sources used (pedals, modules, or even computer software-based).

The other thought is to just keep it simple, pick up a few of the dedicated top-end synth pedals and a couple of the EHX pedals that trigger sampled string/organ/piano sounds (how well do they track for bass?). Downside is that this requires a pedal board & a bit of wiring.

The sounds I can immediately put to use would be the obvious keyboard synth bass types of sounds, augmentation of standard bass sounds layered with synth or piano (left hand), various acoustic instruments (strings, cello), and special effects (triggered sequences, etc.).

So...thoughts?
 
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#2
The other two solutions that come to mind are FretTrax and Industrial Radio:





I think these have an edge over divided pickups like the GK3-B which seem to have unacceptable latency on the lower strings, at least with MIDI. Latency is better with modelling on the GR55 but I don't find the sounds very convincing or useful.

A synth like the Source Audio C4 and a couple of EHX pedals might cover you, depending on what parts you want to play and how good you want them to sound.

But someone is going to say it soon: just use a keyboard?
 
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#3
Phagor said:
But someone is going to say it soon: just use a keyboard?
Click to expand...

Non-starter. I can play a bit of keyboard, but carrying around that much additional baggage is a no-go.
I don't mind an additional floor pedal or two, or even a small rack module for sounds.

The two videos look really interesting...will look into those a little closer.
Thanks for the info!!
 
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#4
@Phagor
Any idea whether FretTrax is still doing this? Their web site doesn't look to have been updated in quite a while, and no sign of how/where to initiate a purchase. I guess I could just contact them via the provided info.

Industrial Radio looks great, too, but are in Australia. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, but also no product purchase page to initiate a purchase. So I guess I'd have to contact them, too, to see what's up.

I'm surprised that these MIDI bass setups haven't caught on. Perhaps it's just too costly.
I happen to also be casually looking for a traditional Jazz-type bass, so I don't mind killing 2 birds with one stone.
 
#5
jimfist said:
Any idea whether FretTrax is still doing this?
Click to expand...

No idea. I saw the Wooten video a few years back and thought it looked interesting, but haven't heard anything recently. Pretty sure the Industrial Radio basses are custom order and have a long waiting list/construction time.

It probably is a bit of a niche market, with high R&D costs. The IR tech originated in the 80s, and was used by Peavey and Wal, so is quite mature.

I haven't actually got experience using a divided pickup and synth/GR55, just watched others using them in videos. Perhaps someone who uses them can chime in on how usable they are.
 
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#6
SA C4 and Future Impact have raised the bar significantly as have the new gen EHX 9 Series pedals and current offerings from boss where a special pickup and MIDI conversion may not be necessary. Accurate tracking is very good and stable, latency is low while still sensitive to nuances. There are also growing libraries of sounds for the C4 and FI.
 
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#9
Honestly if space/mobility is the issue, a beater Ipad and a KMI Qunexus*** would slip into the pocket of your gig bag.

***or other controller, but that’s the one i have experience with - it’s small, light and built to take abuse!
 
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#11
Not quite what you're asking, but I put together a setup a bit like this with some pedals and an old iphone. Lots of great synth apps now, including Moogs


BassPedals.JPG
 
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#12
I have a recovery audio ghost writer which allows me to control a moog synth with my bass. Best thing about it is that it has independent bypass controls for both the midi and the dry audio, which gives the options of “synth only”, “dry only,” and “both together.” Versatile and useful!
 
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#13
jimfist said:
I've been casually interested in integrating alternative synth/sample/keyboard sounds for live performance and was wondering what the state of the technology was with respect to the instruments themselves used to trigger the sounds.

Obviously, being a bassists, we're talking about:
- GK3B pickup on a traditional bass ( I've never liked this idea, seems like trouble )
- Rob O'Reilly Expressiv MIDI Pro Bass (interesting, long lead time, expensive )
- Willcox Saber HexFX (packaged with GR55...unsure about the lightwave pickups for general use)
- something else I'm not aware of
- or forget about these and just add dedicated synth pedals that use pitch tracking (EHX, SA C4, Future Impact, Boss, etc)?

I'm most interested in a solution that is as stress-free as possible, that also has solid tracking without high latency (looking for as low as possible), and can stand up to the demands of live performances (generally nightclubs). I'd like representations of classic analog and digital samples of various kinds.

I understand this tends to be an expensive endeavor, but if anyone has successfully done this I'd like to know how they went about it and what gear they use to trigger, and the sound sources used (pedals, modules, or even computer software-based).

The other thought is to just keep it simple, pick up a few of the dedicated top-end synth pedals and a couple of the EHX pedals that trigger sampled string/organ/piano sounds (how well do they track for bass?). Downside is that this requires a pedal board & a bit of wiring.

The sounds I can immediately put to use would be the obvious keyboard synth bass types of sounds, augmentation of standard bass sounds layered with synth or piano (left hand), various acoustic instruments (strings, cello), and special effects (triggered sequences, etc.).

So...thoughts?
Click to expand...
If you want to do experimental and do sound design, and don't mind using a computer, then the C4 is great. If you want particular flavours right out of the box, probably EHX. I'm currently using the synth effect on an old Boss GT-6B from time to time, which is pleasantly retro, but won't meet your 'state of the technology' requirement :)
 
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#14
I double on keys, so it's a moot point for me, and IF Roland or someone asked me (and I keep up with this end of the pool so little maybe they do make something like this), the way to make synths painless would be to have a simple pitch to midi converter built into any guitar or bass, and MIDI out into a keyboard, rack mount, whatever, that would work seamlessly. No middle man pickups or boxes.

MiniMoog, off the top of my head is the classic, big fat synth bass. I'm sure there are many other choices today.
 
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#17
I've been using the C4 with great results, but it took a lot of digging around in the app and I have to adjust my playing to be very staccato and clean. I'm not sure if there is a legit plug and play option, but maybe one of these gearheads knows.
 
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#18
superheavyfunk said:
I have a recovery audio ghost writer which allows me to control a moog synth with my bass. Best thing about it is that it has independent bypass controls for both the midi and the dry audio, which gives the options of “synth only”, “dry only,” and “both together.” Versatile and useful!
Click to expand...


I have one of these that I am about to sell if anyone wants it here. I upgraded to the second sound unisyn and haven't looked back
 
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#19
Sonnus B2M...I have one that tracks decently as long as I use the bridge pickup

Edit: I forgot to mention that in my quest to find an onstage synth option, the best solution was to use a keyboard. These days I use a Korg microKorg minisynth

 
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