Bass Synth Instruments

[jimfist]

The other two solutions that come to mind are FretTrax and Industrial Radio:

Just heard back from FretTraX and they're no longer producing as they sold their tech to a "large musical instrument company". Let's hope that this means a major manufacturer will take this and run with the ball to produce a mass market product...soon, I hope. All speculation, so for now FretTraX is off the list.

Still waiting to hear back from Industrial Radio.

 

[jimfist]

I struggled/struggle with this, especially as I'm thinking of going to a Stomp XL. But, I use a Yamaha MODX6. Synth stuff just sounds better on a synth. And you play differently on a keyboard. Yeah, I know people get good results with pedals. I haven't. It's one more thing to haul, but worth it, I think, in the long run. Any additional instrument you play makes you a better musician.

I agree that versatility helps make you a well-versed musician. I do play keyboards, but no, for my purposes carrying around that much baggage or resorting to playing keys is not so critical that I care to go there. It's originating from my bass or not at all.

 

[mikewalker]

Another vote for the BOSS SY-series...
I had the SY-300 and it seemed to have negliglible latency no matter what crazy stuff I set it to do.
Really took a lot of fiddling though, to get the kind of sounds I was looking for. Eventually got a handle on its architecture...

 

[BlueTalon]

Subbed.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Not sure how feasible it is to do live, but for my home studio I have a Fishman Triple-Play on a Stratocaster.
With the ease of transposing down the scale, I can do synth bass very well.
(I play a keyboard like I type....no real skill or ability! But I can play a guitar.).

 

[cymbop]

Last weekend we covered the Talking Heads movie Stop Making Sense in a live performance, and I used four different patches on my Future Impact. It sounded great, and was fun as hell.

 

[scott sinner]

Interesting, because I prefer tracking a regular bass tone with a pick because the tone is cleaner. For the Boss/FFT, would you say it's preferable to play a pick?

Basically, it isn't tracking as much as graphing the full range of the input onto pseudo oscillators. So it really doesnt matter whether you use a pick or fingers as far as the notes coming through cleanly. The timbre of the pick and fingers will be different similar to usual.

 

[theunknowndude]

Basically, it isn't tracking as much as graphing the full range of the input onto pseudo oscillators. So it really doesnt matter whether you use a pick or fingers as far as the notes coming through cleanly. The timbre of the pick and fingers will be different similar to usual.

even the sy1 is pretty decent for what it is… had no issues with tracking playing finger style. I just didn’t like that for over the 100+ sounds in it there were about 3 I actually liked… my main reason for a synth is filter sweep stuff so found fuzz and wah better for that.
I bought a modal skulpt to scratch the itch of actual synth which is a decent cheap option (the keyboard is similar to the microfreak instead of physical keys)

 

[ctmullins]

My Korg Microkey Air, my OMEC Teleport, and my iPad Mini all fit into a small backpack, with enough room for a small tray that clamps onto my mic stand.

Korg has some really nice iPad synths out. The iWavestation and the iM1 are pretty fantastic.

 

[scott sinner]

even the sy1 is pretty decent for what it is… had no issues with tracking playing finger style. I just didn’t like that for over the 100+ sounds in it there were about 3 I actually liked… my main reason for a synth is filter sweep stuff so found fuzz and wah better for that.
I bought a modal skulpt to scratch the itch of actual synth which is a decent cheap option (the keyboard is similar to the microfreak instead of physical keys)

I use a few filters on top of the Sy200. Sometimes the Zoia and in a really standout part, a Moog MF Drive with expression pedal.

 

[cosmicevan]

Tell us more about this. You seem pretty confident about the unisyn. I’d love to know more about how you use it any why you think it’s so much better!

I only got it recently and took it for several test drives. I'm still building out my board. I plan to experiment with it and other synths, but I'm using it primarily with a Moog Sirin/Minitaur. Both are on my pedalboard (and take up an extraordinary amount of space...but it's ultimately the sound I'm after so it is worth half my PT Pro real estate I suppose).

I had heard about the Recovery Devices Ghost Writer and ordered one immediately since I've been getting more and more into synths lately and really want to control a synth with my bass (because I stink on a piano based keyboard). I have a future impact (that I really enjoy) and have explored other synth pedals, but I wanted that thick phat synth sound that I can get when I play a synth and twist some knobs. I got the ghost writer in the mail and plugged it in and it worked!!! That said, I couldn't play any kind of fast or ripping bass line (and it didn't track the lowest notes on my bass at all)...but I could definitely get a groove going with my bass via synth. It was around that time that I caught wind of the Second Sound Unisyn. It's made by the guy who made that Squaver box which is also awesome for controlling synths. This is just the evolution of that box and it has a TRS MIDI out → supports type B - the non right angle adapter

I had spoken to a few other players on a similar quest and one told me to check out the Unisyn. I saw the demos on the Squaver for bass (keeping pace with Nathan Navaro's playing)...and saw some unisyn stuff for guitar...so I jumped for it based on the demos and this other player's recommendation. Plugged it into my minitaur and worked better than I could have dreamed...tracks better than any synth I've tried. I haven't explored using the gate outs, but it's on my list to try. I plan to feed my bass into a pitch shifter and then into the Unisyn controlling the sirin so I can play blistering leads. Well...as blistering as I can play on a bass. With a MIDI merger, I'll also be able to have presets on the Sirin and boom...there's my board synth. An actual Moog synth controlled by bass.

 

[jimfist]

Plugged it into my minitaur and worked better than I could have dreamed...tracks better than any synth I've tried.

That sounds like a very cool setup. So you feel the Unisyn tracked to the synth better than the Future Impact?
If that's the case then I've got to seriously consider the Unisyn as a MIDI trigger interface.

 

[Tosh]

.....Any idea which Boss/Roland 13-pin pedal includes PCM sounds? Are any still being produced? It seems that this is older, discontinued technology with the newer stuff being synth-based.

Roland GR-55 is still in production.

The main issue with triggering PCM (sampled) sounds is the pitch-to-MIDI function. You can't change the physics of sound - waves take time to form and propagate. High pitches work well enough, but low pitches will always lag. The latency is hard to deal with below the 5th fret of the E string. Thus, these PTM systems are not very popular.

I have a Godin A4 with piezo + magnetic pickups, and a Wilcox Lightwave with optical + piezo pickups. My synth is an SY-1000. I like this system very much. With the SY-1000, there is no detectable latency. It's fine for live performance.

I also have a Roland GI-20 (just pitch to MIDI; you have to hook up a tone generator via 5pin MIDI). I use this for recording in my home studio, where I can clean up the ghost notes and time-shift the lagging MIDI track(s). It's not what I would choose for a live performance.

It's worth mentioning that I'm a piano player with a bass guitar. If I need to play samples, I have a Roland workstation for that.

 

[Phagor]

The Unisyn looks really interesting. I was following the Squaver, but must have missed later developments.

For me, playing bass synth parts live, I tend to default to octave, distortion, filter; and that's even though I have a C4, Future Impact and Markbass Super Synth. The C4 and FI are cutting edge and very flexible, but I can't rely on them for tracking like I can an octave pedal.

Just something simple like disco octaves can trip-up synth pedals, as there's not much difference between the notes harmonics-wise. I also want to put short funky 16th notes into synth parts and they can be hit and miss.

I don't deny that they can work creatively in the studio with ideal conditions, but on a gig, I need something consistent and reliable (as my playing gets sloppier!). I think the same goes for MIDI.

As soon as pitch-to-MIDI is involved, latency and playability goes out of the window. The GR and SY synths don't have this problem (if you don't use MIDI). The C4 and FI don't have this problem because they can start playing the note before the pitch has been detected (they stay on the previous pitch for a few milliseconds).

As cool as MIDI is, and as much as it opens up the tone possibilities, it's not great for playing bass lines live from a bass, unless you compromise and play octave(s) higher. For other synth parts (strings, organ etc), it might work better.

 

[jimfist]

Roland GR-55 is still in production.
I have a Godin A4 with piezo + magnetic pickups, and a Wilcox Lightwave with optical + piezo pickups. My synth is an SY-1000. I like this system very much. With the SY-1000, there is no detectable latency. It's fine for live performance.

OK. Good that the GR-55 is still available new. Are any of your basses equipped with the 13-pin GK setup?
Leaving pitch-to-MIDI aside, I'm assuming that tracking low bass notes using the GK pickup has less latency than without, right?
How do you find the Willcox bass in terms of battery power life and recharging time? A hassle, or no big deal?

 

[Quatschmacher]

But someone is going to say it soon: just use a keyboard?

Yes, I’m increasingly of this opinion, and I say that as someone who has a MIDIbass on order and worked on the FI.

Non-starter. I can play a bit of keyboard, but carrying around that much additional baggage is a no-go.

You can get pretty compact mini key controllers that would fit in the pocket of a bass bag.

Industrial Radio looks great, too, but are in Australia. Not necessarily a dealbreaker, but also no product purchase page to initiate a purchase. So I guess I'd have to contact them, too, to see what's up.

Epic (in the original sense) build times and really poor communication. I can’t say I wholeheartedly recommend it. You need to have nerves of steel. I paid in December 2019 and still have no bass and have had zero replies to my emails since August 2021. The last two people to receive theirs waited between 3 and 4 years after ordering to receive their instrument! Those who have do enjoy them and the two I’ve played were lovely. I’m still never quite sure if I’ll ever see mine, but remain hopeful.

Not sure how much use I’ll have for it when it arrives as I’ve literally spent the years since I ordered it putting serious work into my keys playing and am much more confident now.

Sonnus B2M...I have one that tracks decently as long as I use the bridge pickup

I was underwhelmed by this, it didn’t track anywhere near as well as the FI and C4 for me. It was before I spent time honing my bass technique to work with pitch-to-MIDI systems though so perhaps I’d fare better with it now. You certainly seem to have it down pat.

 

[Quatschmacher]

Was the OP asking for sound clips? Here’s me doing a Greg Phillingaines line on the FI (triggered by my bass). My part is panned slightly to one side so you can differentiate it from the original.


Here’s the isolated part I did.


This was a single take (after much practice).

 

[jimfist]

Was the OP asking for sound clips? Here’s me doing a Greg Phillingaines line on the FI (triggered by my bass). My part is panned slightly to one side so you can differentiate it from the original.
Here’s the isolated part I did.
This was a single take (after much practice).

Sounds great! I didn't specifically ask for sound clips but feel free to post them. No reason not to.

Yes, I’m increasingly of this opinion, and I say that as someone who has a MIDIbass on order and worked on the FI.

You can get pretty compact mini key controllers that would fit in the pocket of a bass bag.

There's an ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...in here. j/k
This exercise is the total opposite of adding any type of keyboard to the situation, but rather, specifically and only about the trigger of synth/sample sounds from a bass guitar. There's a reasonable chance that I'll struggle to get what I'm after, in which case I'll fold my hand and move on. My needs are modest for live use only, and top of the list is ease and seamlessness of integration. There are a lot of rabbit holes....just trying to see if they can be mitigated.

Epic (in the original sense) build times and really poor communication. I can’t say I wholeheartedly recommend it. You need to have nerves of steel. I paid in December 2019 and still have no bass and have had zero replies to my emails since August 2021. The last two people to receive theirs waited between 3 and 4 years after ordering to receive their instrument! Those who have do enjoy them and the two I’ve played were lovely. I’m still never quite sure if I’ll ever see mine, but remain hopeful.
Not sure how much use I’ll have for it when it arrives as I’ve literally spent the years since I ordered it putting serious work into my keys playing and am much more confident now.

Sorry to hear that about the Industrial Radio. Looks like a great piece of gear. I emailed them yesterday and got no reply, so temporarily crossing that idea off the list.

I was underwhelmed by this, it didn’t track anywhere near as well as the FI and C4 for me. It was before I spent time honing my bass technique to work with pitch-to-MIDI systems though so perhaps I’d fare better with it now. You certainly seem to have it down pat.

I'd probably look at the Unisyn converter before the Sonnus, all things considered.

 

[Bob_Ross]

it has a TRS MIDI out → supports type B - the non right angle adapter

Does the UniSyn also have a standard (i.e., Old Skool) 5-pin MIDI output also?
Or, are TRS>DIN adapters common for connecting modern MIDI equipment to older synth modules?

 

[Quatschmacher]

Sounds great! I didn't specifically ask for sound clips but feel free to post them. No reason not to.



There's an ECHO...ECHO...ECHO...in here. j/k
This exercise is the total opposite of adding any type of keyboard to the situation, but rather, specifically and only about the trigger of synth/sample sounds from a bass guitar. There's a reasonable chance that I'll struggle to get what I'm after, in which case I'll fold my hand and move on. My needs are modest for live use only, and top of the list is ease and seamlessness of integration. There are a lot of rabbit holes....just trying to see if they can be mitigated.



Sorry to hear that about the Industrial Radio. Looks like a great piece of gear. I emailed them yesterday and got no reply, so temporarily crossing that idea off the list.



I'd probably look at the Unisyn converter before the Sonnus, all things considered.

Shame I didn’t see your post sooner - the FI was heavily discounted last week but I think the deal ended on the 30th or yesterday.

I’d honestly suggest that as your first port of call before the unisynth as it’s using a similar pitch detection idea but has a 4-oscillator monosynth built in. It’s DSP based (as is the C4) but I did a blind recording of it against my Moog Subsequent 37 playing exactly the same line and more people guessed incorrectly which was which. It was a very interesting exercise. The other cool thing about the FI is that you can trigger it with a keyboard or any other MIDI controller too so can use stuff like the Morningstar controller or Midium controller (shameless plug) to play notes.

I don’t want to discourage anyone from buying a MIDIbass, but go into it with your eyes open as to the timeframe and communication issues.

Was about to point you toward a friend of mine in the UK currently selling his 5-string MIDIbass (now no longer made) but I’ve just looked for the link to his ad and seen it’s sold. There is a 4-string version for sale which another friend once owned (as well as the 5er mentioned already). If you join the Industrial Radio Facebook group you can see it listed there.