Bass Synth Instruments

#184
bass.slinger said:
Tried out the Unisyn and ended up returning it - could not get the tracking to work well for me.
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The UniSyn can be very sensitive. But the “tracking battle” can be won at both ends: (1) make sure picking attack is consistent and clear. Putting a compressor before the UniSyn can help a lot. (2) choice of synth and setup of that synth is very important to how the signal is received. I tend to set longer decay/release times, as well as an almost immediate attack time. This helps make the synth playing more “fluid” and natural sounding. I really like UniSyn with Moog Sirin and with Roland SE-02 monos.
 
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#185
bass.slinger said:
I never had any tracking issues with the FI, I just felt the synth engine only sounded ok (same issue with the C4 and other bass pedals). My main reason for trying out the Unisyn is that I also have synths - a couple of Moogs and multiple soft synths that would be fun to play with my bass (especially fretless). I know comparing a $400 pedal to actual analog synths is not fair, but once going to good synths, it is tough to go back.
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This was my story. My main gripe with the FI is tweakability. I never geled with the editor but managed to find lots of great presets, but for me...a synth is all about riding the controls of the synth...not playing different notes with a patch, but rather playing the patch. That's the big difference between a synth and synth pedals.


Quatschmacher said:
It's not that unfair. Check these clips. one is the FI, the other is the Moog Subsequent 37. Can you tell which is which?

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I think A sounds better so like the others I assume it's the moog. That said, I can take a cheap pedal and dial it in to sound as sweet as it gets and the. Put it alongside a boutique pedal and dial that one in not as nice so posting comparison sound clips doesn't prove anything other than you can trick someone. I have played a Subsequent 37 and it can get sounds that the FI can't dream of and vice versa. If you are looking to just use presets, you are better off with a FI/C4/Boss...etc. If you are looking to control actual synths with your bass then you need something else.
 
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#186
cosmicevan said:
This was my story. My main gripe with the FI is tweakability. I never geled with the editor but managed to find lots of great presets, but for me...a synth is all about riding the controls of the synth...not playing different notes with a patch, but rather playing the patch. That's the big difference between a synth and synth pedals.




I think A sounds better so like the others I assume it's the moog. That said, I can take a cheap pedal and dial it in to sound as sweet as it gets and the. Put it alongside a boutique pedal and dial that one in not as nice so posting comparison sound clips doesn't prove anything other than you can trick someone. I have played a Subsequent 37 and it can get sounds that the FI can't dream of and vice versa. If you are looking to just use presets, you are better off with a FI/C4/Boss...etc. If you are looking to control actual synths with your bass then you need something else.
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A is the FI!
 
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#187
Quatschmacher said:
A is the FI!
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Yep...knew that before I wrote my post. Like I said...an A/B put together by someone other than oneself to prove a point is always going to be a hard sell since tweaking the knobs to "make them sound the same" - is different than making them sound the best they possibly can. As a Moog synth owner and a FI owner, I know they can both get great sounds, but I have a MUCH easier time getting better sounds from the Moog than the FI and I have a hard time getting a bad sound out of most Moogs.
 
#188
Admiral Akbar said:
The UniSyn can be very sensitive. But the “tracking battle” can be won at both ends: (1) make sure picking attack is consistent and clear. Putting a compressor before the UniSyn can help a lot. (2) choice of synth and setup of that synth is very important to how the signal is received. I tend to set longer decay/release times, as well as an almost immediate attack time. This helps make the synth playing more “fluid” and natural sounding. I really like UniSyn with Moog Sirin and with Roland SE-02 monos.
Click to expand...
I had to really boost the signal going into the UniSyn to get it to track - I used a Broughton FlipTop, but a compressor is probably a better idea - until the meters were close to red. Tracking set to Fast and I could play pretty quickly and still have it track. @Admiral Akbar do you find picking better then fingerstyle for tracking? (not normally a pick player, haven't tested it yet)

Last night I hooked up the CV outs to a MiniBrute2 and started playing with that, to my ear it seems to track a little slower then the MIDI out, but it def worked. I'm using a Moog Minitaur for the MIDI out - its a great sounding synth but the patch really matters. I'm still working out what a playable system is going to look like - it opens up so many possibilities - do i want to swirl down the black hole of eurorack? should i just plug it into Logic and do everything there (I played some Alchemy patches with a fretless and it was insane)
 
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#190
thumbslapper said:
I had to really boost the signal going into the UniSyn to get it to track - I used a Broughton FlipTop, but a compressor is probably a better idea - until the meters were close to red. Tracking set to Fast and I could play pretty quickly and still have it track. @Admiral Akbar do you find picking better then fingerstyle for tracking? (not normally a pick player, haven't tested it yet)

Last night I hooked up the CV outs to a MiniBrute2 and started playing with that, to my ear it seems to track a little slower then the MIDI out, but it def worked. I'm using a Moog Minitaur for the MIDI out - its a great sounding synth but the patch really matters. I'm still working out what a playable system is going to look like - it opens up so many possibilities - do i want to swirl down the black hole of eurorack? should i just plug it into Logic and do everything there (I played some Alchemy patches with a fretless and it was insane)
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The patch is always going to matter…even when controlling w a keyboard if you need to play fast articulate stuff your attack and release should be reflective of those needs. When you dial in a patch and have your tracking set to your playing w a Minotaur and the unisyn…it’s game over
 
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#191
jimfist said:
I've been casually interested in integrating alternative synth/sample/keyboard sounds for live performance and was wondering what the state of the technology was with respect to the instruments themselves used to trigger the sounds.

Obviously, being a bassists, we're talking about:
- GK3B pickup on a traditional bass ( I've never liked this idea, seems like trouble )
- Rob O'Reilly Expressiv MIDI Pro Bass (interesting, long lead time, expensive )
- Willcox Saber HexFX (packaged with GR55...unsure about the lightwave pickups for general use)
- something else I'm not aware of
- or forget about these and just add dedicated synth pedals that use pitch tracking (EHX, SA C4, Future Impact, Boss, etc)?

I'm most interested in a solution that is as stress-free as possible, that also has solid tracking without high latency (looking for as low as possible), and can stand up to the demands of live performances (generally nightclubs). I'd like representations of classic analog and digital samples of various kinds.

I understand this tends to be an expensive endeavor, but if anyone has successfully done this I'd like to know how they went about it and what gear they use to trigger, and the sound sources used (pedals, modules, or even computer software-based).

The other thought is to just keep it simple, pick up a few of the dedicated top-end synth pedals and a couple of the EHX pedals that trigger sampled string/organ/piano sounds (how well do they track for bass?). Downside is that this requires a pedal board & a bit of wiring.

The sounds I can immediately put to use would be the obvious keyboard synth bass types of sounds, augmentation of standard bass sounds layered with synth or piano (left hand), various acoustic instruments (strings, cello), and special effects (triggered sequences, etc.).

So...thoughts?
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#192
I tried all toys like GR55, FIv3, C4, Boss SY-200. The GR55 please me the most and still keep playing it at my live gigs. However, the GR55 still missing EDM bass sound (trending right now). I ordered the Bob O'Reilly Expressiv MIDI pro Bass will be delivered by the end of 2023.
 
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#193
custombass said:
I tried all toys like GR55, FIv3, C4, Boss SY-200. The GR55 please me the most and still keep playing it at my live gigs. However, the GR55 still missing EDM bass sound (trending right now). I ordered the Bob O'Reilly Expressiv MIDI pro Bass will be delivered by the end of 2023.
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That's all cool and sounds interesting.
Unfortunately I've moved on from this idea as it looks to be more of a cash and time suck than would be worth it at this time. I'm still very interested in implementing a broad range of synth & PCM sounds, but just not now given how little I'd actually use those sounds. If my gig situation changes, then maybe I'll jump back in.
 
#194
Tosh said:
BOSS - SY-1000 | Guitar Synthesizer

The SY-1000 has a couple of different synth engines running; the Dynamic Synth is the most useful IMHO. It's real-time modelling on a per-string basis. Some patches do exhibit latency (typically the OSC voice) but for the most part it's truly real-time. It will do PTM but I find I get better results with the old GI-20.
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Just wanted to chime in and say I picked up an SY-1000 that I found for a decent deal thanks to some of your posts in this thread and elsewhere on TB as well as a ton of Vguitar forum reading and Youtube. I'm pretty surprised it isn't more talked about on TB, I'd guess the price and general lack of bass videos is a big part. I'm really digging it- in many ways feature and implementation-wise it is what I had hoped the GR-55 would be. As you mentioned, no real latency using the Dynamic Synth engines which puts pitch-tracking options like the C4 and Future Impact to shame when using the SY with a hex pickup (using the 1/4" input I have so far been less impressed, but haven't gone too deep with that yet since it isn't why I picked it up). Of course the SY lacks all the sampled sounds, but I've found so far that the SY-1000 MIDI out works about as well for triggering these sounds in Logic or Ableton and I can avoid the abysmal editing available in the GR. Its also fun building those string, electric piano, horn-type sounds with stacked synth engines within the SY too and generally far less corny sounding!
 
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