BL moved the goalposts!#$&!

[FullumMusic]

I'm almost 58 and I really don't want to start over with another band.

Finding another band can be a major P.I.T.A. But you're almost 58. Isn't putting up with unprofessional and annoying musicians & band leaders worse?

How much do you want to put up with a BL who doesn't respect your time or pay ($20 is a nice tip, but that works out to either $10 or $6 per band member for an entire extra set)?

How much do you want to put up with a BL who reminds me of a BL of bands i was in in high school and college?

No joke. We played an all ages club when we were in HS. Crowd cheered. Sound engineer said, "Play one more if you want." We did. Crowd cheered. Sound engineer said, "good job, now break down for the next band to set up." Singer proceeded to beg, plead, and argue with the sound engineer to play 1 more tune. (Also, we didn't even have any more songs for our set. There were no more songs that we practiced together.) The rest of the band just started breaking down while he embarrassed us over the mic.

Fast-forward a few years later to college. I join a band of his. We play our first show. End of set, he asks the sound engineer if we can play one more after being told our time was up. Second show, same thing, except this time he again begs/argues with the sound engineer for one more song just like back in HS. And this was a showcase show.

Not hard to guess this one "quirk" wasn't his only issue. He was kinda terrible all around as a BL and this was just one example. I definitely quit both of those bands and felt a bit dumb for thinking he would have changed in the few years between the HS and college bands.

Wanting to play a set for soundcheck, and play a set for a tip, and play through breaks... major red flags for me. I have some armchair-psychoanalysis of him that i'll save for myself. If you want to stay in the band, him doing 2-3 solo songs between sets while the rest of you are on break isn't the worst idea. But it should be decided and planned out before the gig, and absolutely shouldn't be "negotiated" over a live mic at the show.

 

[pepj]

If I think the de facto BL is an idiot, lost it or never had it, I'm done.
$80 ph pro rata.
Max drive 1 hr.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Played a birthday party last night. At the agreed upon ending time I started to pack up. The BL said something to the effect of "Should we play more?", which was more a request than a question. I replied "Believe it or not, I have other plans tonight beyond this gig."

I try to not even say that much. If I have other plans after a gig, "No; I have other plans" usually suffices. If I don't and I'm not willing, a simple "I'm done" gets it. I'd rather not address possible reactions with "believe it or not", or over-explain, for that matter, with "I've got an out-of-town gig tomorrow with an early van call", or "I've got to go let my dogs out", or any other comments.

My abruptness isn't because I don't suffer fools any more or less that others, though I'm probably more in your camp in that regard; I'd just rather not add anything that can detract from my answer, which in your example would be "no".

Plus, I'd rather not give the band leader anything they can latch onto and argue with.

And yeah, people are going to read into that what they will, so the less I say, the better.

 

[KenSmithFan]

OP doesn't have to put up with it.

No one does.

It's a choice.

Exactly. We teach people how to treat us. When we accept abuse, we teach them that it's OK to abuse us. That's OUR fault.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

I try to not even say that much. If I have other plans after a gig, "No; I have other plans" usually suffices. If I don't and I'm not willing, a simple "I'm done" gets it. I'd rather not address possible reactions with "believe it or not", or over-explain, for that matter, with "I've got an out-of-town gig tomorrow with an early van call", or "I've got to go let my dogs out", or any other comments.

My abruptness isn't because I don't suffer fools any more or less that others, though I'm probably more in your camp in that regard; I'd just rather not add anything that can detract from my answer, which in your example would be "no".

Plus, I'd rather not give the band leader anything they can latch onto and argue with.

And yeah, people are going to read into that what they will, so the less I say, the better.

I see your point. I tend to be pedantic sometimes.

BBB

 

[Pocket Dave]

Exactly. We teach people how to treat us. When we accept abuse, we teach them that it's OK to abuse us. That's OUR fault.

It's not even my job to teach, and it's not my fault if they're abusive.

Still, I have a choice whether I'm going to stay or go for my own peace of mind. What they do, what they learn, what they don't learn beyond that isn't my business or concern.

 

[KenSmithFan]

It's not even my job to teach, and it's not my fault if they're abusive.

Still, I have a choice whether I'm going to stay or go for my own peace of mind. What they do, what they learn, what they don't learn beyond that isn't my business or concern.

Completely missed my point. Of course we don’t sit down and literally teach them how to treat us. We teach them by the behavior we accept. And it is our fault if we accept abusive behavior.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Completely missed my point. Of course we don’t sit down and literally teach them how to treat us. We teach them by the behavior we accept. And it is our fault if we accept abusive behavior.

Oh I didn't completely miss it. You lead with "we teach people how to treat us". While true, and while you and I might arrive at the same end, I believe emphasising that first isn't a healthy thing for me.

Accepting that teaching fools isn't in my job description helps me sidestep peace-of-mind robbing situations I've otherwise got no control over.

I set boundaries. Respect them, we're cool. Don't and the consequences will likely be we're done.

Whether you learn from that or not is not my circus, not my monkeys.

I'd rather not use language to the contrary.

 

[JazznFunk]

Every time I read caca like this it makes me happy I don't feel the need to be in a band anymore.... or at least one where I'm not the one calling the shots - especially mic presence and banter on gigs. My capacity for tolerating stuff like what happened to the OP is minimal these days.

 

[Jimmy4string]

 

[pcake]

Exactly. We teach people how to treat us. When we accept abuse, we teach them that it's OK to abuse us. That's OUR fault.

i dunno. i prefer to spend time with people who don't need me to teach them how to treat me. some people have empathy, kindness or class.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

OP update:
Drummer and I have been working together to get BL onboard to take breaks.
BL is genuinely clueless, in a string of group SMS I was brutally clear that "It is completely unprofessional to spend 4 hours onstage! Industry standard is take breaks to avoid
1) musician fatigue
2) audience fatigue
I cannot reiterate how unprofessional it is to do this"
Drummer- "I concur".
Last night we took a 10 minute break. BL looked like he was gonna have a stroke lol.

I'm at a strange place with everything!
Gig was typical last night, microbrewery with lots of 30 something's spending too much money on IPAs and ignoring the band.

I'll be 58 in July. I've inherited osteoarthritis from my mom, 3 hours on stage is pretty painful.
I'm considering a 26 lb combo amp from Markbass which might make it possible for me to gig another 3 to 5 years, after which I'll need to sit down to gig.
I kinda need the money I'm making but if it wasn't for the money I'd retire now.

 

[pepj]

4 hrs playing time is ridiculous. I do not understand what this really achieves. Imv, it promotes a non musical event because people have to tolerate the band rather than get into them.
But if you have to do them, I'd insist on 45 and 15 min break.
I'd also be sitting down when I felt like it.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Top-of-the-list of rules for behaving like a pro.

Air no dirty laundry on mic.

I'll give you one strike and you and I are going to have a little offline talk about boundaries. 2nd strike and you'll have my resignation end-of-night.

I worked for a BL, once, who was so awful, I packed my gear and left at the end of the second (of four) sets; life is too short.

 

[51PRI]

OP update:
Drummer and I have been working together to get BL onboard to take breaks.
BL is genuinely clueless, in a string of group SMS I was brutally clear that "It is completely unprofessional to spend 4 hours onstage! Industry standard is take breaks to avoid
1) musician fatigue
2) audience fatigue
I cannot reiterate how unprofessional it is to do this"
Drummer- "I concur".
Last night we took a 10 minute break. BL looked like he was gonna have a stroke lol.

I'm at a strange place with everything!
Gig was typical last night, microbrewery with lots of 30 something's spending too much money on IPAs and ignoring the band.

I'll be 58 in July. I've inherited osteoarthritis from my mom, 3 hours on stage is pretty painful.
I'm considering a 26 lb combo amp from Markbass which might make it possible for me to gig another 3 to 5 years, after which I'll need to sit down to gig.
I kinda need the money I'm making but if it wasn't for the money I'd retire now.

You might also consider the Fender Rumble 500 bass amp. Very lightway and sounds great.

4 hrs playing time is ridiculous. I do not understand what this really achieves. Imv, it promotes a non musical event because people have to tolerate the band rather than get into them.
But if you have to do them, I'd insist on 45 and 15 min break.
I'd also be sitting down when I felt like it.

Right. Audiences need a break, too.

 

[pcake]

OP update:
Drummer and I have been working together to get BL onboard to take breaks.
BL is genuinely clueless, in a string of group SMS I was brutally clear that "It is completely unprofessional to spend 4 hours onstage! Industry standard is take breaks to avoid
1) musician fatigue
2) audience fatigue
I cannot reiterate how unprofessional it is to do this"
Drummer- "I concur".
Last night we took a 10 minute break. BL looked like he was gonna have a stroke lol.

I'm at a strange place with everything!
Gig was typical last night, microbrewery with lots of 30 something's spending too much money on IPAs and ignoring the band.

I'll be 58 in July. I've inherited osteoarthritis from my mom, 3 hours on stage is pretty painful.
I'm considering a 26 lb combo amp from Markbass which might make it possible for me to gig another 3 to 5 years, after which I'll need to sit down to gig.
I kinda need the money I'm making but if it wasn't for the money I'd retire now.

if BL is afraid people will leave, they could make sure to announce "we're taking a break, and we'll be back in 15 minutes, so be sure to stick around".

 

[Lance Bunyon]

if BL is afraid people will leave, they could make sure to announce "we're taking a break, and we'll be back in 15 minutes, so be sure to stick around".

BL took a long break last night. We were playing a benefit event with a haircuts for charity booth.
He actually got a haircut on break.
Another cricket fest.
I think my band probably sucks, I'm too close to it to tell.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Tonight we have an acoustic trio gig up in Troutman.
I texted the following to BL:
"New venue ehh? Whats the deal? Outdoor or indoors? Acoustic or electric?"
He replies with this;
"Indoor, acoustic. Talked to the venue owner, the show is still on at this point"...

I kinda flipped out.
"Why is the show still on at this point? I run a package delivery franchise. For Friday/other weekday shows I pack my car with gear then work around the gear all day. Debbie is no longer a tropical storm and has been on landfall for almost 2 days. Troutman is 200 miles inland from the Atlantic!..."

Turns out BL once again planted seeds of doubt in the venue owner.
"Is everything ok? Are we still on for tomorrow? Is the weather a factor?"
We call him Eyore for good reason.

So here's what I told him:
"Dude if this show falls through and I drive my gear around all day and miss out on the big packages and get CANCELED on yet again I'm gonna have a catastrophic announcement for my tenure with the band. All year we've functioned like crackheads with outdoor shows, strange new venues that don't match their contract agreement...
I WAS a crackhead in the 80s. I refuse to live like that now. DO NOT MAKE ME PRE-PACK MY GEAR AGAIN ONLY TO BE CANCELLED!!!".
We talked it out.
I'm considering giving end of year notice tomorrow night after the OTHER new venue show.
Dude is not handling things tightly.
There is no other area of my life where I function in a crackhead manner, I can't live like this anymore...

 

[pepj]

On the basis of the above update, I tend to ask what the gig is before I accept it, new venue is ok, but I'll check it out before hand, for space and ideally dont want to be the first band in and also that the rosta is condusive to our offering, in terms of level, material and size etc.

I dont tend to have to ask much more as everyone knows what the deal is and if anyone, band, or venue, step outside of that, word goes round quickly...either between bands or venues so either could get tagged poorly...and conversley, if you do really well, that travels too.

I want the minimum of surprises...who doesn't...so don't work with people who dont get the whole picture.

If a BL leader is flakey to the above degree, noone works with them.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Tonight we have an acoustic trio gig up in Troutman.
I texted the following to BL:
"New venue ehh? Whats the deal? Outdoor or indoors? Acoustic or electric?"
He replies with this;
"Indoor, acoustic. Talked to the venue owner, the show is still on at this point"...

I kinda flipped out.
"Why is the show still on at this point? I run a package delivery franchise. For Friday/other weekday shows I pack my car with gear then work around the gear all day. Debbie is no longer a tropical storm and has been on landfall for almost 2 days. Troutman is 200 miles inland from the Atlantic!..."

Turns out BL once again planted seeds of doubt in the venue owner.
"Is everything ok? Are we still on for tomorrow? Is the weather a factor?"
We call him Eyore for good reason.

So here's what I told him:
"Dude if this show falls through and I drive my gear around all day and miss out on the big packages and get CANCELED on yet again I'm gonna have a catastrophic announcement for my tenure with the band. All year we've functioned like crackheads with outdoor shows, strange new venues that don't match their contract agreement...
I WAS a crackhead in the 80s. I refuse to live like that now. DO NOT MAKE ME PRE-PACK MY GEAR AGAIN ONLY TO BE CANCELLED!!!".
We talked it out.
I'm considering giving end of year notice tomorrow night after the OTHER new venue show.
Dude is not handling things tightly.
There is no other area of my life where I function in a crackhead manner, I can't live like this anymore...

Your personal direction = your choice.

Personally, if last minute cancellations were a regular thing in a band, I'd be out regardless of what kind of nonsense precipitated them.