Challenges related to Custom Boutique basses and builders?

Sorry, but I don't see the sense in this thread at all. Every builder is different. Why would I hate anything about all of them?

To not be totally destructive here: The OBVIOUS downside to any custom built instrument is that you can't play it beforehand. What might sound good on paper can still feel bad once you hold it in your hands.
But you don't need a TB thread to figure that one out.

Everything else depends. People are talking about communication and updates on the build. I had a Maruscszyk built a few years ago. They gave me an estimate for a build time, there were no updates whatsoever during that period, they delivered two or three weeks before they said they would - I was happy with that.
 
Sorry, but I don't see the sense in this thread at all. Every builder is different. Why would I hate anything about all of them?
Because some pretend to have the knowledge to build instrument. And once you see or play the instrument it's just an entry level instrument priced like a real boutique one.
I've seen that before.

Now, there are real boutique makers and wannabe makers. I'm talking about those last ones.
 
For buyers, the problems I see over and over on TB:

First, the horror stories always seem to come from builders with very short or flaky histories. Deal with established, long-term builders along the lines of Alembic, Michael Tobias, NY Spector, Sadowsky, and many more, and these stories seem to dry up quickly. This is why I always issue my 'Look Before You Leap' warning in that it's way to easy in this www. world to fall in love with pictures on some slick website run by a builder with little or no track record, no real support, no long customer list of completed transactions/instruments successfully built and delivered and so on. Don't do it.

Second, even with the established players, there's custom with a little c, and Custom with a Big C:

. . . . custom with a little c is some version or slight variation on a model this builder has made in volume over time. Maybe a different wood, a different color, a different pickups layout, but still, 'in their wheelhouse' of a proven model.

. . . . Custom with a Big C is when you want Sadowsky to build you an EB-O Gibson style instrument, or you want Alembic to make a bolt-on Jazz style bass. This isn't what they do, they'll politely decline. You don't go to a Mexican restaurant to order Linguine with clams. SOMEBODY will build you a Starship Enterprise shape double neck . . . . but you're on your own.

I wouldn't presume to know the challenges from the Builder's standpoint, but I do know of cases where instruments aren't accepted by the buyer for incredibly chicken reasons, and then they burn the guy to the ground online as if they were big enough crooks to be on the FBI's most wanted list for no good reason. It's not fair and it's not right.

For any custom, you need to have been around a little while, know what does and doesn't work for you, have a pretty good idea of the kind of bass you want, and which builders are already long-established building instruments like what you have in mind. Then you really need to have a meeting of the minds with that builder, and both of you need to spell out how this is going to work, what to expect, how long it will take, and of course how much it will cost. Don't be surprised if you need to front a substantial deposit with solid rules of if and how it could be returned, if possible. I also wouldn't be surprised if some or all of it is NOT refundable. These are small businesses making a living on a small number of finished instruments, and those economics are different than the giants for sale at Guitar Center.

Amen. Best post in this topic!
 
To not be totally destructive here: The OBVIOUS downside to any custom built instrument is that you can't play it beforehand. What might sound good on paper can still feel bad once you hold it in your hands.
But you don't need a TB thread to figure that one out.

Everything else depends.

I agree. Not being able to play it beforehand is a big downside and also a big risk. What if you don’t like the end result or the bass is not what you expected or it doesn’t feel right or if there are some flaws?

Do builders give you your money back? I don’t think many do. You end up with a bass that is very hard to resell (unless it’s a famous maker) and you lose a lot of money with that resale.
 
That's the 3rd time today that I hear something about the horrible communication that some builders have with their customers. Sounds like a total disrespect, many times.
I also hear the same from builders: Wealthy middle aged men who exchange emails for hours and hours, arranging details of a custom bass, and then they say that it is not the right time to buy. Bad communication is the norm, rather than the exception, from what I've heard.
I would not agree that it is the norm. As I said, I had good experiences with three out of four, so obviously that's only 25% no good, far from a norm.
 
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I've got a couple, and no complaints at all.

Some things which have stopped me from ordering from some other respected builders though:

1. Too much choice. I'd rather have a solid foundation with a bit of customisation, and not have to choose between 6 different bridge configurations, 12 types of tuner, 17 screw types, etc. I'd prefer a few solid combinations the luthier knows work well together.

2. Not enough sound/video demos. For some builders I looked at, I could only ever find one or two sound examples of their basses. Nice as they were, it's really hard to justify big spends on the basis of a 30 second sound clip.

Best luthier experiences have been with those that were interested and asked questions about what I wanted to from the bass, rather than blindly taking a shopping list of things to put together (e.g. asking what music I played, was I mostly playing fingerstyle, would I prefer something lighter, etc.)
 
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Mainly price. I also don't like the attitude of some builders, as if I owe them money by not buying from them (esp. when their offerings are not that unique). But maybe snobbery is their marketing strategy so...
 
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As a builder, I have followed the same path a number of familiar and respected brands have followed: 100% US-sourced materials and services, vintage-spec neck pockets, best in class hardware and electronics, and a unique set of design features that differentiate my work in the market.

The biggest challenges I face are:
  • Brand awareness and recognition
  • Post-Covid supply-chain challenges
  • Consumer acceptance of my design choices
  • Extended lead times that prevent me from taking custom orders
Because of these constraints, I build what I like, and when it's ready, I put it up for sale.

That said, I have found a couple of niche markets where I'm the only game in town (32" scale conversion necks and 8 & 10-string bridges), and I'm using the success I've had in those segments to strengthen my approach to complete builds.

I'm hoping for a breakthrough in 2024 and beyond.

:)
Does this means your basses can be tried before buying ?
 
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Leo Fender has been quoted saying: "If I have $ 100 budget to build an instrument, I'd put $ 99 in functionality, and $ 1 in looks". No one can argue that this has been the wining formula for 75 years now. With custom and boutique builders, it is often more like 60% looks and 40 % function, or at least these are my impressions. The instruments are gorgeous to look at, but at the moment you pick them up, they don't feel and sound so great.

Source? I can't find that quote anywhere, and it actually doesn't sound like the sort of thing Leo would say, or is this one of those post-truth-era quotes that's legit because you read it somewhere unattributed?

The biggest disappointments with custom builders tend to happen with the ones who let their customers spec everything. Often the customer doesn't know what works and what doesn't, so they make a laundry list of lousy combinations that end up being a dud after the build is done. The best custom builder experiences seem to be the ones who do their thing, and keep the options to a minimum.
 
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The only thing I hate about boutique basses are the price and the wait time to get some instruments . I understand every aspect of what goes into building them and from that standpoint it's hard to complain , but that is my answer . There was one or two basses that I wanted to buy , but waiting 9-12 months was too long in my book and spending up to $6000.00 only made me think about how I couldn't justify spending that much money , even though I could afford it .
 
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I've never ordered a luthier built bass and I've never built basses for customers. I know several bass players who have done this though, and I've also worked closely with a luthier who does custom builds.

Based on this it seems to me that the main issues/complaints are:

1) There are very often delays. Many luthiers can't make a living just from building high-end custom instruments so they often have other jobs, like repairing guitars or working as a musician or something else entirely. This means they will often be swamped with work and the smaller jobs that provide a short term income to pay the bills will often take priority over a time consuming custom build. Things like personal/family/health issues can also cause delays when dealing with a one-man operation.

2) You never know how a bass will turn out until it's actually finished. If you pay $6000 or more for a custom built bass you expect it to not only look great but also to SOUND great! I've seen more than one example of AMAZING looking custom built basses that for various reasons either didn't sound particularly great or simply didn't sound or "feel" the way the customer expected it to. This is not always the luthier's fault. Sometimes the customer makes poor choices when deciding on the specs and/or have unrealistic expectations. If you're paying for a "dream" bass you may end up disappointed even if you receive an objectively "good" bass.
 
I bought a Sadowsky last January and after 5 months I decided that bass was too beautiful to play and could only be polished by the hands of Angels and I sold it to pay for my new bass rig and two basses . So boutique basses are too expensive and look bad when they are not taken care (trashed) of , unlike an old Fender bass that becomes more regal .
 
There seem to be three categories of people who post about custom builds from smaller boutique builders:

1. The no-research nightmare stories. They find a website, talk to the dude, throw some money at him, then start doing their research. Turns out there were already threads, posts, and receipts about issues but these people either are new to the idea of custom orders or have money to burn without any concern on return. Now the whole project has gone to hell and they are one more voice shouting about how much X builder sucks.

2. The pile-on guys who either have one experience as category #1 or have never actually gone through the process at all. They will tell everyone who will listen how much boutique instruments are a waste, how every luthier is a crook, and how their 1992 Fender P-bass with a Dead Kennedy's sticker can outplay any Fodera. They are in every thread and super vocal about their opinions.

#3. The happy customer. Whether they are pros who need quality gear or hobbyists with day-gig money to invest in nice things, this is the category of folks who do research, plan ahead, understand the biz and requirements of custom instrument orders, and mostly walk away happy. Sure, no industry has a 100% approval rating, but it's pretty rare that this category posts stuff like "I gave X $5K and all he sent me was a plank with some googly eyes on it and an invoice for $2,500."

A big part of the issue, in my opinion, is that people don't understand WHY anyone would order a custom instrument in the first place. If your old P-bass does the trick why in the world would you pay $3K and wait two years for a new bass? It doesn't make any sense to them, so they are very vocal that it should not make sense for anyone else.

When I started researching custom and boutique instruments (Fodera, Alembic, etc. and then the luthiers who build boutique instruments but aren't as well known) over 20 years ago I talked to a lot of players from all over the world, from hobbyists to Grammy winners. I came away with two reasons to look at custom boutique builders, and I think it still applies today.

1. What you want doesn't exist on the market. Maybe you want an unusual scale length (more common today than 20 years ago), uncommon electronics, or very specific dimensions that nobody produces en mass. For example, my 30" 5-string tenor bass with 2 magnetic pups, a piezo bridge, and a dozen control knobs/switches. You can't find that at Guitar Center.

You also have people who know EXACTLY what they want and close-enough just won't do it. Neck dimensions, string spacing, finish, even types of fret wire. Whatever it is that you are after, you have identified it, looked at the market, and nothing checks all your boxes. It's time to talk to someone who can build the thing you want with every feature.

2. The quality-to-cost ratio is worth it to you. Sure, you can play and gig and even make a living with a cheap instrument. And maybe you can find a stock bass for $800 that feels pretty good, even compared to a $2,000 build. But if you are playing hundreds or thousands of gigs/sessions, even a 20% increase in feel, ease of play, or tone can be totally worth the expense. I had a bass built that sounds fantastic and I've received compliments on it's tone for 20 years. Over those years I have had bands specifically request that bass and it's paid for itself many times over. For me, when I was gigging 4+ nights per week and developing arthritis and other health issues even a slight increase in playability and ease was the difference between working or taking time off.

Outside of pros you also have people in this category who just have money to spend and appreciate nice things. Sure, they COULD play on a MIM Fender, but they are financially stable, enjoy the sound and feel of a boutique instrument, and to them the value is worth the cost. No different from people buying fancy cars, expensive office furniture, moving into a big house, or investing in their hobbies with tools like quality golf clubs.

So, no, nobody NEEDS a boutique bass just like nobody NEEDS a nice car. But for people who know what they want, have researched the market, and know what to expect from a custom build it makes perfect sense to go the boutique route.
Excellent post.
 
I don't own any.
But a common characteristic is a one man operation.
They get in over their head.
Then add some personal problems that get in the way of completing projects.
They don't return calls or communicate to customers.

Then they take the money and run.
 
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Haters gonna hate…

I have nothing but love for custom built basses. They bring creativity to the market that otherwise wouldn’t be there. The more them out there the better.

Custom builders are no different than any other business owner regarding communications, quality, etc…. Buyers need to do their research. That’s it. Then builders gonna build!