Defretting ?

#502
Turnaround said:
Wow, you have some really bad wolf tones. And the sound is really uneven. Are you sure the fingerboard is really level? It sounds as though there are a lot of irregularities in the board.
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I'm not hearing wolf tones... the same notes don't have them every time. I'm hearing differences in finger pressure and plucking force -- you know, the things that make a fretless so expressive.
 
#503
eli said:
I'm not hearing wolf tones... the same notes don't have them every time. I'm hearing differences in finger pressure and plucking force -- you know, the things that make a fretless so expressive.
Click to expand...
You are hearing something different from what I'm hearing then. For example, there are one or two glissandos that buzzed out fiercely going up the neck. A nice even mwah is one thing but a nasty buzz that passes as you slide up is an indication of an un-even board. I'm a fretless player and I wouldn't put up with that.
 
#504
I recently found this $10 Rat Bass to de-fret, the frets were worn down to the board, somebody played the snot out of this old MIJ Electra. It was missing all the electronics and the bridge but it did have the brass nut, and the tuners, and it came with a single stock knob too. :) I had cheap pull off hardware to get in to make noise. It still has a bunch of holes for other options later on.

I chose to go the sand down route using an Aluminum beam and ceramic abrasive, after 4 hours of careful sanding it's been taken down to 800 grit and treated with pure Tung oil it's finally ready for strings.

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#507
I just dug through this thread and i'm planning on de-fretting my Squier P bass sometime in the near future. I'm planning on going with either maple or white plastic to replace the frets in the finger board.... Is there anything special about using either material in the fret slots or about bonding them in?
My understanding is that just wood glue would be ok for the maple but I'm not sure about what to use for a plastic material (also what plastic would work in there anyways??). Anyways I'll be thinking about this project and the process to get there a bunch more before doing anything to it.
 
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#508
You've probably found the answers to your questions already, but just in case, and for anyone else curious about ways to do this, here's what I did to a "CC Clark" (Mars Music Ibanez knock-off) a few years back. At the Xmas-special price of 99 bucks, I figured it was just right for this sort of project, and if I wrecked it, oh well.

As with any DIY, your own work is done at your own risk, blah blah etc. This example is a relatively casual bit of tinkering on my part, but if you're thinking of doing this to a bass you actually care about (and/or with a higher-than-two-digit price tag), by all means, consult with a pro. :bag:

Anyway, I'd read some early internet blog posts about fretless conversions using end nippers to pull the frets, and strip styrene and gap-filling cyanoacrylate to replace them (the "gap filling" being a key point in the glue selection). Both can usually be found in hobby shops that cater to serious model makers, train buffs, etc., who like to build their own model bits from scratch. I found the stuff I used at a HobbyTown USA. The styrene strips come in in varying thicknesses, and at the time, were packaged in slim green & white plastic bags (see top edge of the photo below, and crop following):

defret1.jpg


With a little bit of trial and error (which is fine - styrene is cheap stuff), I found a pretty good approximation of the fret slots in the strips measuring .020 x .188". (Sorry for the low resolution, but "zoom! enhance!" only works on crappy TV shows).

defret2.jpg


I cut the strips to roughly neck-width, put the cyanoacrylate on the edge of the strips, and slid them into the fret slots. They will sit proud of the slots, so you can trim them to a rough height once the glue dries (I think I just used the flat side of a pair of wire cutters for that step, gently following the curve of the fretboard).

defret3.jpg


Then, using a a long sanding block and a succession of sandpaper grits (sorry, I can't recall them in detail, but better tutorials can surely be found that will get you the right numbers), I smoothed down the trimmed strips, and got everything level with the board. I found a little bit of glue squeeze-out here & there, but once the board was re-finished, it wasn't terribly noticeable.

defret4.jpg


Once everything was well wiped down and dried overnight, I oiled the fretboard, bolted it back on, strung it up with some flats, tweaked the setup a bit, and viola: $99 homemade fretless bass. :bassist:

defret5.jpg


defret6.jpg


Hope that helps someone. Good luck to any & all who try it! :thumbsup:
 
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#509
Winslow said:
You've probably found the answers to your questions already, but just in case, and for anyone else curious about ways to do this, here's what I did to a "CC Clark" (Mars Music Ibanez knock-off) a few years back. At the Xmas-special price of 99 bucks, I figured it was just right for this sort of project, and if I wrecked it, oh well.

As with any DIY, your own work is done at your own risk, blah blah etc. This example is a relatively casual bit of tinkering on my part, but if you're thinking of doing this to a bass you actually care about (and/or with a higher-than-two-digit price tag), by all means, consult with a pro. :bag:

Anyway, I'd read some early internet blog posts about fretless conversions using end nippers to pull the frets, and strip styrene and gap-filling cyanoacrylate to replace them (the "gap filling" being a key point in the glue selection). Both can usually be found in hobby shops that cater to serious model makers, train buffs, etc., who like to build their own model bits from scratch. I found the stuff I used at a HobbyTown USA. The styrene strips come in in varying thicknesses, and at the time, were packaged in slim green & white plastic bags (see top edge of the photo below, and crop following):

View attachment 3463447

With a little bit of trial and error (which is fine - styrene is cheap stuff), I found a pretty good approximation of the fret slots in the strips measuring .020 x .188". (Sorry for the low resolution, but "zoom! enhance!" only works on crappy TV shows).

View attachment 3463448

I cut the strips to roughly neck-width, put the cyanoacrylate on the edge of the strips, and slid them into the fret slots. They will sit proud of the slots, so you can trim them to a rough height once the glue dries (I think I just used the flat side of a pair of wire cutters for that step, gently following the curve of the fretboard).

View attachment 3463449

Then, using a a long sanding block and a succession of sandpaper grits (sorry, I can't recall them in detail, but better tutorials can surely be found that will get you the right numbers), I smoothed down the trimmed strips, and got everything level with the board. I found a little bit of glue squeeze-out here & there, but once the board was re-finished, it wasn't terribly noticeable.

View attachment 3463450

Once everything was well wiped down and dried overnight, I oiled the fretboard, bolted it back on, strung it up with some flats, tweaked the setup a bit, and viola: $99 homemade fretless bass. :bassist:

View attachment 3463451

View attachment 3463452

Hope that helps someone. Good luck to any & all who try it! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Looks good! The most important part of how anybody does this kind of luthier work is planning and very careful attention to detail (craftsmanship).
 
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#510
I'm planning to defret my "travel bass" (Hohner B2V).
I've gotten about halfway through this thread, and am planning to use wood filler after I pull the frets.

Is there a page or thread somewhere that compares that various coatings (epoxy, CA, etc) - pros and cons of each, ease of application, etc.?

Thanks!
 
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#513
eli said:
. The bottom of each string should be the thickness of two business cards above the fingerboard at the nut... as long as the neck is straight!
Click to expand...
That’s a bit excessive for a fretless electric. Even a bit excessive for a double bass. I would say one business card thickness max on an electric.
 
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#515
Turnaround said:
Please read this thread:
Defretting and the use of Wood Filler
Click to expand...
You (helpfully) commented in the thread I started with questions about that build. I wound up using purfling (based on the comments there and reading). Thanks!
It went generally well, but there's a tiny imperfection in the board now that causes a bit of sitar-ing on C# (G string). So more sanding and perhaps a recoat are in order.
 
#516
Turnaround said:
That’s a bit excessive for a fretless electric. Even a bit excessive for a double bass. I would say one business card thickness max on an electric.
Click to expand...

No arguments from me. Shooting for two thicknesses may have saved me from ruining a nut or two if I filed too deep, but who knows. I'm an amateur tech who only works on my own instruments (I bought a set of StewMac nut slot files and have done maybe 5 or 6 nuts), so I defer to your experience. Might risk going lower next new fretless nut I need to file down.
 
#517
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I re-sanded the board and it plays great. I need to grind down the bridge saddles a bit more to get the action down further.
Far from perfect, I still have some cosmetic clean up to do, but I’m pleased with the result.
Thanks to all here who contributed knowledge and advice.
 
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#518
Hey guys. My first post here :)
I'm in the middle of the process of defretting my bass. So far I removed the frets, filled the gaps with maple veneer, sanded with 320, 600, 800 and 2000 grit sandpaper. Then without thinking much, I polished it lightly with lemon oil - just a few drops on the rag. Not sure if that wasn't a mistake though. My next step will be spraying with Polyurethane Spray: Rust-Oleum 319g Gloss Clear Specialty Polyurethane Spray
My question is. Can I start applying right now over the lemon oil treated fretboard (a day ago)? Should I wait some time or do some more preparation.
I also must say I'm very happy with the look so far, before applying any kind of a finish and I'm tempted to stop now. Is it a good idea stoping now and opting out to flatwound strings like DADDARIO ECB81 CHROMES FLATWOUND BASS STRING SET 045/65/80/100? Do I still need some kind of protection for the fretboard with flats?
 
#520
I defretted an Ibanez Roadstar II 5 string about 15 years ago, and it's held up quite well.

I used maple veneer and Elmer's Carpenter's Glue, a Stew-Mac fret puller, and a lot of patience.

No regrets. :D
 
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