Defretting ?

[sunbeast]

Maple board fretless maintenance question. The wood filler on my seventies Ibanez jazz copy has expanded a little. The bass still plays well but there are some minor intonation issues.

What grit sandpaper would you recommend to preserve the finish of the board and the inlay blocks?

View attachment 4570289

There is a zigzag pattern to the fret lines. I’m not sure whether this means that there were never frets set into it or what. It’s a unique sounding fretless and I want it playing its best.

Nice Ibanez! I recently sold a nearly identical one from the mid-70s (though it still had its frets) that I owned for around 15 years. I still have an Ibanez P bass from the same era that appears to be a factory fretless, though it is hard to say for sure. The zig-zag lines on your neck are where the sharp metal nibs underneath the frets that hold them into the wood pierced the wood when they were pulled out- a tell-tale sign of a typical aftermarket fretless job.

Is there a clearcoat over your entire fingerboard? Raising fret lines happen when whatever material used to fill the lines doesn’t expand/contract at the same rate as the fretboard material.

 

[Standalone]

Nice Ibanez!

Is there a clearcoat over your entire fingerboard? Raising fret lines happen when whatever material used to fill the lines doesn’t expand/contract at the same rate as the fretboard material.

Thanks. I think the maple board does have some kind of finish on it. Not a thick one if it does, but it is a maple board.

Yes I do know about the “fretless sprout” from uneven expansion and contraction. It’s minor, but I’m finding that it’s enough to cause some intonation issues when playing up the neck.

 

[stringtheory6]

Don't forget about the sideways fret removal method. ZERO tear out. Here's the YouTube link:

 

[ThomasTronics]

I had an old Warwick that I defretted in high school about 20 years ago. Before I had the great resources of this forum and the knowledge.
It has a Wenge Fretboard and after playing on the barewood for a bit I noticed the rounds were already digging into the wood. Decided to protect the wood.
I originally started with a Marine Epoxy but I found it almost impossible to work with and took forever to dry and sand and polish.
Ended up sanding it back to the wood and trying Super Glue. Brushed on 2 coats and sanding with 600 grit to smooth it out. 2 coats and a wet sand on the last after curing. Need a polish but so far looks okay. Not as good as the natural Wenge but it was easy turned out nice and was able to maintain the radius of the fretboard.

 

[eli]

Super glue definitely polishes shiny! What brand product did you use, and how much did it take for the two coats?

 

[sunbeast]

I had an old Warwick that I defretted in high school about 20 years ago. Before I had the great resources of this forum and the knowledge.
It has a Wenge Fretboard and after playing on the barewood for a bit I noticed the rounds were already digging into the wood. Decided to protect the wood.
I originally started with a Marine Epoxy but I found it almost impossible to work with and took forever to dry and sand and polish.
Ended up sanding it back to the wood and trying Super Glue. Brushed on 2 coats and sanding with 600 grit to smooth it out. 2 coats and a wet sand on the last after curing. Need a polish but so far looks okay. Not as good as the natural Wenge but it was easy turned out nice and was able to maintain the radius of the fretboard.View attachment 4766342 View attachment 4766340

I've done a few fingerboards in super glue that came out great. I would guess you'll probably want more than two coats or rounds will eat through pretty quickly. I did over 10 coats on the necks I did this on (which gives plenty of excess for sanding down flat), though I was using thin viscosity glue following the method Dan Erlewine did an article about many years ago. Can't find this old article anymore, but he gives a short outline in this: Dan Erlewine's Facebook fretless bass - StewMac

 

[ThomasTronics]

Haven't polished it yet, didn't even put it back together.
Gorilla super glue slow set.
I put two coats so that it was "close"to the fretboard but i think i know what you're saying by put more.

 

[fdeck]

I didn't realize there was a thread here, so I posted about it in Luthier's Corner:

Best and latest de-fretting method?

It's a Breedlove "Pursuit" ABG. I bought it last fall, hoping to use it for things like Old Time fiddle jams. I've already got some other acoustic options including upright and cello, but wanted to try this as well, because it's something I can just pull out of the bag and play.

It turned out well. Plastic strips, held in by super glue, sanded flat. As I mentioned in the thread, some FB woods look nice after sanding. This one was greatly improved by a thin wipe of boiled linseed oil. Strings are D'Addario tapes.

 

[eli]

I didn't realize there was a thread here, so I posted about it in Luthier's Corner:

Best and latest de-fretting method?

It's a Breedlove "Pursuit" ABG. I bought it last fall, hoping to use it for things like Old Time fiddle jams. I've already got some other acoustic options including upright and cello, but wanted to try this as well, because it's something I can just pull out of the bag and play.

It turned out well. Plastic strips, held in by super glue, sanded flat. As I mentioned in the thread, some FB woods look nice after sanding. This one was greatly improved by a thin wipe of boiled linseed oil. Strings are D'Addario tapes.

View attachment 5133428

I definitely prefer the dark strips on dark boards. Very nicely done!

 

[Possum Willy]

For years I've owned professionaly defretted basses with styrene inlays.
In 2010 I successfully defretted my own bass.
In 2017 I had an unlined ebony fingerboard applied to that sixer.

After four years I've come to a point of decision.

• I like the sound of rosewood over ebony.
• I like having lines.Especially when playing up in the "Ionosphere"
• I need to "cull the herd"

So I am now in the process of again defretting a fretted Tune TWB.
I will inlay wood strips this time.
Using a pair of end nippers with the end ground flush,I gently removed the frets with minimal chipping.
View attachment 4517282
View attachment 4517212
View attachment 4517215


I then made sure the neck was as straight as possible.
Trussrod adjustments were done.
I then superglued in .035 basswood strips and let it set over night.
The next Morning,using the end nippers I trimmed down the strips flush to the surface of the fingerboard.
View attachment 4517216




Using a radius block and some 60 grit sand paper I rough sanded down the inlay stubs and glue ridges.
I then finish sanded with some 150 and some 220.


Topped it off with a coat of Howard's Feed and Wax.
View attachment 4517218View attachment 4517233View attachment 4517234View attachment 4517240View attachment 4517241View attachment 4517242

Fully assembled,tuned and tested.
The nut was lowered.
No flat spots!

I will have to lower the pickups and ramp.
The strings bottom out when I play upper register notes.
View attachment 4517243

Awesome article, thank you very much!

 

[Possum Willy]

Thanks for the tips guys! I think I'll leave it like this now and will go for flats for now.

With this one still sitting on the workbench, I'm already thinking for another refreting job. It's getting as another hobby I reckon. For the next project I'm gonna use poly (just to utilize the spray can I already have).
For the frets, I'm thinking of taking a slightly different approach for purely esthetical reasons. I'm thinking of filling the frets with veneer the very same way, sanding and levelling perfectly. Then as I want a slightly thicker fret marks I'm gonna spray a ~1mm line over each fret using speciality masking tape designed for making a sharp line - ScotchBlue Sharp Lines 24mm x 55m Multi-Surface Painter’s Masking Tape. I will probably use some kind of a bronze spray paint to make the fret marks stand out. And then seal everything with the poly. Has this ever been tried? Any ideas if that's a good idea?

Another great choice is ground wounds or even pressure wounds. Both start as round wounds and both have very unique tonal characteristics.

 

[6stings]

Thanks to this thread I took a chance on defretting this one. My very first. Probably the last too

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I used the wet towel and iron method and a paring knife on my Mikro's initial purpleheart board. I read about it in a post in the Mikro club. It is a fantastic method. I didn't bother taking the neck off either. All frets came out easily with not one hiccup and no pulling out of anything other than the frets. Was my first go at defretting. I was nervous to start, but once over I felt very satisfied and lost the fear of doing this kind of thing. Filled the slots with a paste made of pva glue and talcum powder and a little sanding and steel wool with mineral oil to get smooth. Nothing else. No sealers or anything. Used flats on it. Have recently replaced the board with an unlined ebony board.

Initial defret. I also removed the white plastic fret dots too

 

[Watchootognbout]

I used the wet towel and iron method and a paring knife on my Mikro's initial purpleheart board. I read about it in a post in the Mikro club. It is a fantastic method. I didn't bother taking the neck off either. All frets came out easily with not one hiccup and no pulling out of anything other than the frets. Was my first go at defretting. I was nervous to start, but once over I felt very satisfied and lost the fear of doing this kind of thing. Filled the slots with a paste made of pva glue and talcum powder and a little sanding and steel wool with mineral oil to get smooth. Nothing else. No sealers or anything. Used flats on it. Have recently replaced the board with an unlined ebony board.

Initial defret. I also removed the white plastic fret dots too
View attachment 5205372

Something a little more solid than pva glue and talcum powder may have been better to resist the necks periodic flexing.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Something a little more solid than pva glue and talcum powder may have been better to resist the necks periodic flexing.

I read about concerns about that. I didn't notice any issues over the time I had the lined board and I did a lot of string changes/ tensions/ setups. I think I would just go straight to a board replacement if that is possible if I wanted another diy make a fretted bass fretless and avoid slot filling.
My novice diy ebony unlined board that I replaced the defretted board with.

 

[eli]

I read about concerns about that. I didn't notice any issues over the time I had the lined board and I did a lot of string changes/ tensions/ setups. I think I would just go straight to a board replacement if that is possible if I wanted another diy make a fretted bass fretless and avoid slot filling.
My novice diy ebony unlined board that I replaced the defretted board with. View attachment 5205378

Wow, that's major surgery to a knucklehead like me. Nice work! How did you unglue the old board?

Did you put a radius on it or is it flat? Hard to tell from the photo.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Wow, that's major surgery to a knucklehead like me. Nice work! How did you unglue the old board?

Did you put a radius on it or is it flat? Hard to tell from the photo.

If I could do it anyone could.
Woodworking is not one of my stronger points he he
I started out using damp towel and hot iron again for the re board. The idea was to loosen the glue a bit at the nut end and get a putty knife between the neck top and bottom of board and start to lift the board off. I got an initial start and thought ' you bewdie!' but I soon ran into the prob that no amount of steaming loosened things, so I just resorted to a mallet and chisel. I found that the treble side of the board was where the glue had been mostly used.
The ebony board is non radiused. I could have done it because I made up a diy sanding block to sand the previous lined board when i pulled the frets. But I was using saddles on that which didn't follow the radius, so I just left the new board flat. I did deepen the A and D nut slots to match the depth of the E and G ones due to no radius. I find totally flat works fine. I've played classical guitars in the past that are flat as a pancake. I know a radius , partic a small one, can facilitate chord stuff, but I don't do much of that anyway on a bass.
The original defret tools

Initial lifting off of old lined board

 

[GTHintz]

If I could do it anyone could.
Woodworking is not one of my stronger points he he
I started out using damp towel and hot iron again for the re board. The idea was to loosen the glue a bit at the nut end and get a putty knife between the neck top and bottom of board and start to lift the board off. I got an initial start and thought ' you bewdie!' but I soon ran into the prob that no amount of steaming loosened things, so I just resorted to a mallet and chisel. I found that the treble side of the board was where the glue had been mostly used.
The ebony board is non radiused. I could have done it because I made up a diy sanding block to sand the previous lined board when i pulled the frets. But I was using saddles on that which didn't follow the radius, so I just left the new board flat. I did deepen the A and D nut slots to match the depth of the E and G ones due to no radius. I find totally flat works fine. I've played classical guitars in the past that are flat as a pancake. I know a radius , partic a small one, can facilitate chord stuff, but I don't do much of that anyway on a bass.
The original defret tools
View attachment 5205824

Initial lifting off of old lined board View attachment 5205826

Im defretting a gsr205 neck and that's nice to know that i always have the option of getting a non fretted fingerboard if i need to. So far defretting is going well though. Just trying to figure out what im going to use for filling in the old slots.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Im defretting a gsr205 neck and that's nice to know that i always have the option of getting a non fretted fingerboard if i need to. So far defretting is going well though. Just trying to figure out what im going to use for filling in the old slots.

There are numerous fills you read about on TB. Thin bits of maple veneer, plastic, some kind of filler. I wanted white lines on my original defretted Mikro fretboard and just used what I had in the cupboard. A mix of pva glue and talcum powder. But I wouldn't recommend others do it, as pva can be loosened by moisture. Did the job though until I replaced the fretboard entirerly

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Jaco only needed a butter knife.