DI box between amp and cab

#41
Wasnex said:
There are several DIs designed specifically to work with speaker level signals. The Countryman Type 85 has a 40dB pad to knock the level down and will not distort until you hit it with about 1,700 watts. The device will actually handle 300Vpp which is equivalent to 2,800 watts at 4 ohms. The input impedance is 10Meg ohms so your amp won't even notice the extra load. The only concern is you can't use a speaker level DI with amps that are operating in bridge mode, which includes many Class D amps.
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Oh, that's pretty cool. Like I said, that was just my thought on the matter. I've never had to try something like that. But, our producer runs my clean bass into his box, then straight into the DAW. We then work off plug ins for my bass. Live, I have an amp with a DI out. My pre pedal also has a DI out. But, that's good to know that there are boxes designed for this application. That there is a way, if there is a need.
 
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#42
The JDI is absolutely awesome paralleled out of a cab, I assume it can also be used from a parallel speaker output from an amp AS LONG AS THERE’S ALSO A SPEAKER PLUGGED IN, caps because that’s what the JDI instructions *kinda* say (they actually only say to plug in from the cab, which is all I’ve ever done, but I’m unaware of a difference if the jacks are parallel on the amp too- beware, because a few amps, Genz Benz is one that I own, DO NOT have parallel speaker outs).

I’ve always wondered what the speaker selector on the countryman meant, if you look on their website, it says nothing about needing another speaker load in parallel or anything, so I assume you can do exactly what you are wanting to do, and put it between your amp and the speaker. I’ve certainly plugged into a lot of 85’s at venues and studios but never owned one, I’ve had the same JDI for 25 years and a Firefly for 7 or 8 now, all I’ve ever needed.
 
#44
I'm sure you're extremely interested (:roflmao:) - so thought I'd update you all.

Went for the Countryman 85; just bought one now. Gives me the option of taking an instrument signal before the amp and also going down the speaker level DI route. Will also likely use it in the studio in September when we're back in recording. By all accounts its also bulletproof so seemed like a sensible purchase.
 
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#45
andykeating said:
I'm sure you're extremely interested :)roflmao:) - so thought I'd update you all.

Went for the Countryman 85; just bought one now. Gives me the option of taking an instrument signal before the amp and also going down the speaker level DI route. Will also likely use it in the studio in September when we're back in recording. By all accounts its also bulletproof so seemed like a sensible purchase.
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They are extremely versatile. I used a Type 85 for several years to wedge under my speaker to direct the sound up to my ears. It was the perfect size ;). IMHO, it's also a pretty good sounding DI.

I am sure lots of people will appreciate an update on your experience using the Type 85 at speaker level :nailbiting:.
 
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#46
Hi everyone. Thought I’d give some feedback on my thoughts on using the Countryman 85 between the amp and head. Maybe people will find it useful and interesting.

We had a pre-production day because the band has a big show coming up. Was the first time giving the Countryman a run out:

  • Used between an SVT-CL head and 410HLF cabinet it sounded tight, growly and had a real midrange presence. Definitely captured a lot of the tube tone and warmth. May have been ever so slightly lacking in the lows and lower mids, but our sound guy said it wasn’t difficult to EQ. Was not particularly similar to the sound coming from the speaker cab, but that’s never going to be the case. It certainly had a lot of the SVT’s character. We also had an AKG D112 on the cab.
  • However, the way we’re going for the show is using the Countryman post effects pedals (only a chorus and delay) and pre amplifier. Again we’ve got an AKG D112 on the cab. This seemed to give us a more preferable sound and bass presence and a more full sound which captured the full spectrum and seemed to compliment the band better. The blend of DI and capturing the amp and cabinet with the microphone worked nicely. Sounded good solo’d and in the mix.
So that’s my take on it. Not ruling out using it between the amp and cab down the line, and at shows where where a mic isn’t preferable or we use a different FOH engineer who doesn’t want to use a mic, I may go down the route of using it between the amp and cab. Then again, the sound from the Countryman straight to the desk is fantastic, gives the bass some real warmth and fatness whilst not taking away any highs, mids, lows etc.

Hope this was useful to people interested :)
 
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#49
bassmutz said:
Nobody tested the RNDI in this way?
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The RNDI has a switch to select instrument or speaker "input level," so it can be used both ways. The speaker level input is rated for 92V RMS which good for 1058W at 8 ohms or 2116W at 4 ohms. So if you are using a really big amp use caution.

Another concern is you can't use a speaker level DI with an amp that operates in bridge mode, and many Class D amps operate in bridge mode all the time.
 
#50
Wasnex said:
The RNDI has a switch to select instrument or speaker "input level," so it can be used both ways. The speaker level input is rated for 92V RMS which good for 1058W at 8 ohms or 2116W at 4 ohms. So if you are using a really big amp use caution.

Another concern is you can't use a speaker level DI with an amp that operates in bridge mode, and many Class D amps operate in bridge mode all the time.
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There's zero point in doing it on a SS amp, though.
 
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#51
I have and use the RNDI, and I like it a lot. But I’ve never been is a situation where the FOH tech would agree to let me use the speaker input level where he or she wouldn’t also agree to just mike the cab, which is (to me) preferable. In other words, my experience with FOH techs is that they either say “sure, whatever you want” (so I use a mike) or “let’s do it my way” (meaning run a DI before the amp). Your experience may differ, of course ...
 
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#52
s_wood said:
I have and use the RNDI, and I like it a lot. But I’ve never been is a situation where the FOH tech would agree to let me use the speaker input level where he or she wouldn’t also agree to just mike the cab, which is (to me) preferable. In other words, my experience with FOH techs is that they either say “sure, whatever you want” (so I use a mike) or “let’s do it my way” (meaning run a DI before the amp). Your experience may differ, of course ...
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Wish I could say the same thing when I was using a mic. Most let me do it, but the few that argued with me were dicky about everything else except their crap DI.
 
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#54
JimmyM said:
Wish I could say the same thing when I was using a mic. Most let me do it, but the few that argued with me were dicky about everything else except their crap DI.
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Yeah Jimmy, that’s kind of what I was trying to say. Sometime I can talk those kind of folks into letting me use my own DI, but no way would they let me go with a speaker out routing.
 
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#55
I ask , because the DI of my SVT isn“t the best. Too quite and a bit with noise. So my idea was to put the RNDI between amp and cab to have the sound of the SVT. Thanx for your thoughts!
 
#56
I typically use a Countryman Type 85 to send to FOH (if they want to mic my cab, great!). Send the DI right after my pedalboard.

Because I am using fuzz and overdrive, I have a L/HPF at the end of my pedal chain to cut off the unwanted lows and highs that come with running at line level.

Have spent hours playing this exact setup through cans/boards to emulate what I would be sending to FOH, and it sounds good to me. I have only gotten compliments at gigs.
 
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#58
Wasnex said:
Another concern is you can't use a speaker level DI with an amp that operates in bridge mode, and many Class D amps operate in bridge mode all the time.
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worth repeating, because that means just about any micro head that has lots of power and won't do 2Ω.
JimmyM said:
There's zero point in doing it on a SS amp, though.
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also worth repeating, pointless on anything besides an actual tube amp.
 
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#59
two fingers said:
I've done it with the Countryman and the Radial. I heard no difference in tone. Bith worked great.

As stated above, the tone that so uh nds best out front will not be as pleasing through you cab.

But I'm sure that the "Any good sound guy can fit YOUR sound into a mix" crowd will be along any time now to argur that point. (Funny thing is I run sound too. ;))
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I am going with if the room is big enough to cope with SVT throttled on enough to hear power tubes then there aren't any boundaries close enough to the stage cab to influence what bass player hears from cab and the rest of the room should have the EQ eq set for it, quid pro quo the sound out of the cab is exactly what needs to go to the mixer. Further, if the band mixes itself on stage well then there will be little to be done to the bass tone for the mix out front.

More likely there is no bass in the PA though if it is indoors. If it is outdoors then making the PA sound like a fridge is easiest with a flat enough response mic like AKG P2 which is amazingly cheap.
 
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