Difficulty with Prymaxe

[Hypercaffium]

I think you would be hard pressed to find any retailer that has a perfect customer rating.....

I know, s**t happens, people make mistakes, especially people working for big shops who sells a lot of stuff every day. I've had some issues with some shops in the past and in most cases I still shop from them. You know why? Because it depends on the mistake(s) made. Some mistakes are understandable, negligible, some other DON'T. Selling gear that you don't have in stock without telling that to the buyer is not a "mistake" in my opinion. It's not a death penalty crime, but I personally don't like it. The same is for lack of communication with the buyer and poor organization/coordination between the online shop and the phisical store. I don't like these things and I don't shop from people/companies who make this. Plain and simple.

The beef I have is with you snarky dudes jumping all over a guy who had a bad experience and siding with a vendor instead of another bass player. And Prymaxe is far from innocent; jwr and others don't like them, and this is not a completely isolated incident.

And while they did *ok* by me, I still find all of their internet codes that never work and require talking to someone there instead to get the deal, and their by appointment only shop policy, and their penchant for selling goods that are out of stock without honestly showing them as back order items all quite off-putting. Is that ok with you Major Bummer or should I go stand in the corner for an hour?

We're all allowed to say *exactly* what we want to say, so please back off. Even the Prymaxe rep came and admitted they didn't do right by the OP, is that not good enough for you? Are you angling for some kind of a discount or something?

+1
I read posts like this pretty often and it's depressing.

 

[willbassyeah]

EDIT: I just saw the heated arguments at the posts before, so a disclaimer on how i perceive the whole ordeal.

i can talk about some refund processes for overseas buyer.

If i am using a credit card, refund usually happened after 2 weeks when i cancelled an order from US
(there are no cash involve as it is credit, so only transaction need to be updated between bank to bank hence faster processing time)

If i am using a debit card, refund will happened after 1 month when i cancelled an order from US.
(there are transfer of cash involve here, the cash will sit on ledger until it clears, if order is cancelled, it will stay at ledger and it wont be transferred to the seller's account)

From what i understand and just reading off prymaxe comment, i kinda understand what is going on here, they are either understaffed or not having a good product management systems flow.

This is a big issue with online shopping systems in general, if they have multiple online platforms (main website, reverb, ebay) but their stocks are not sync into one single product management, it can cause a lot of problem.

Example, if there comes a point where there is only 1 stock of a pedal left and then 2 different orders came for the pedal at two different platform at the same day.

this is why it might seemed as if they are mis-advertising in their website in regards to stock.

Gawd i wish i know how to program and just build some product management software to assist all these synchronization issue.

 

[DarkArchitect]

Well, couple of comments if I may...

While the term "a small, family owned business" is being used to create sympathy, I usually find such businesses, through own experience of 44 years in life, not to be managed properly, as usually people get their positions in such businesses not out of their capabilities or talents, but just because they are some relatives.

The success of any business depends on its management and the number of employees is not always the only factor to bring success. There are a lot of builders out there, that are just One Man Army, and doing the design, the build and the shipment of their pedals, alone on their own and you never see such hassles with those One Man armies, as they have business ethics and proper way of approaching people.

When there is such incompetence by any company, whether it is "a small, family owned business", or the biggest giant in this sector, it is normal that there will be some reaction by the people that have to live such hassles because of such management.

If there is a counter-reaction by anyone that did not have such hassle, that is also very much welcome and understandable, provided that, there are proper words and common understanding that though they have not experienced such hassle, they are aware that such things can happen, for whatever the reason.

What is NOT understandable is that, when such post is flooded by "a bunch of strangers" and the employee of the business, trying to make it up the situation, openly by suggesting some favor of a sale at whatever %, which is a sign that they are missing the whole point of discussion and have previously dealt with such matters in the same way, giving something so that people will not raise their voices, making such hassles happen over and over again. If the management and the system that they have are not fixed, such problems will occur again, and any sale will not make them not happen again.

Finally, to sum it up, I would like to thank Talkbass administrators, first closing and then reopening the post, as there was really a lot of tension that had to stop. I would also like to apologize from anyone, that somehow I may have offended, which was not my intention at all.

The biggest thanks go to the fellow bassists that have understood the whole point of this discussion, whether they have lived through the same hassles or not, you were the crowd that I was aiming at when making this post.

 

[Hypercaffium]

This is a big issue with online shopping systems in general, if they have multiple online platforms (main website, reverb, ebay) but their stocks are not sync into one single product management, it can cause a lot of problem.

This is exactly what I was trying to say. I don't think we're dealing with a dishonest seller, at least this time. It's just a matter of organisation but these things can result in frustration for the buyer. Add some lack of communication and you have a bomb ready to explode. Sometimes it explodes later, sometimes earlier.

 

[BassBrass]

Why don't their internet sales codes ever work? Why do they sell out-of-stock items without honestly marking them as backorder items on their site?

It's because not every manufacturer wants to be included in sales. Strymons are so g. d. pretty they will not allow it! But to the PROGRAMMERS here...is there any reason all that data can't be encoded onto the product so you are notified when a product is ineligible? does any else use this 'e-mail us when the code doesn't work' gambit? seems messy.

 

[HolmeBass]

It's because not every manufacturer wants to be included in sales. Strymons are so g. d. pretty they will not allow it! But to the PROGRAMMERS here...is there any reason all that data can't be encoded onto the product so you are notified when a product is ineligible? does any else use this 'e-mail us when the code doesn't work' gambit? seems messy.

The prymaxe rep contacted me about this offline and in reply I said why not a search key for all items for which the promo applies and she said the manufacturers don't even like that! But I countered that I have *never* had a promo code work through the web on their site, ever. And they'll send the promo code out in email, with photos of various wonderful pedals in the header of that email, and the code *doesn't even work on the pedals in the photo!*

It might be a tough row to hoe, but honestly I claim shenanigans. There could be a better solution.

And no word about not updating items as needing to be backordered. Their website should be more point-of-sale and integrated into their inventory system. It should all happen automatically.

 

[Prymaxe]

It might be a tough row to hoe, but honestly I claim shenanigans. There could be a better solution.

And no word about not updating items as needing to be backordered. Their website should be more point-of-sale and integrated into their inventory system. It should all happen automatically.

If you look at Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Rogue Guitar Shop, Sam Ash, Reverb.com, Chicago Music Exchange, etc -- they all have coupon exclusions, too. To not offer a sale because some products can't be included doesn't make sense -- we want to give people the best deal possible. As I said, it is only a handful of brands that we cannot discount at all, even one penny, but the majority of brands we can work out a private deal on. Most manufacturers want us to have a good relationship with customers, so we can sell it at a discounted price to them directly, but we can't advertise it/give a discount that requires no interaction. Again, this is not our policy/choice. but before I got into this business, I thought those items on the exclusions list could just never be discounted, and I paid full price. Now that I know all I had to do was send them a quick email, chat, or phone call and I can get it discounted, I feel dumb for paying full price! I know it's a minor inconvenience, but the only other option is to not get a discount at all.

I'm not sure what you mean about the backorders/pre-orders. The product page will say it's a pre-order, when you add it to your cart it will say it's a pre-order, and when you go to check out there's a pop up warning you it's not in stock and it will be a pre-order. There are a few rare instances where someone buys the item a couple seconds before you do and the inventory system didn't get a chance to re-sync, but other than that, you're always going to know by looking at the product page that it isn't in stock.

 

[HolmeBass]

If you look at Guitar Center, Musician's Friend, Rogue Guitar Shop, Sam Ash, Reverb.com, Chicago Music Exchange, etc -- they all have coupon exclusions, too. To not offer a sale because some products can't be included doesn't make sense -- we want to give people the best deal possible. As I said, it is only a handful of brands that we cannot discount at all, even one penny, but the majority of brands we can work out a private deal on. Most manufacturers want us to have a good relationship with customers, so we can sell it at a discounted price to them directly, but we can't advertise it/give a discount that requires no interaction. Again, this is not our policy/choice. but before I got into this business, I thought those items on the exclusions list could just never be discounted, and I paid full price. Now that I know all I had to do was send them a quick email, chat, or phone call and I can get it discounted, I feel dumb for paying full price! I know it's a minor inconvenience, but the only other option is to not get a discount at all.

I'm not sure what you mean about the backorders/pre-orders. The product page will say it's a pre-order, when you add it to your cart it will say it's a pre-order, and when you go to check out there's a pop up warning you it's not in stock and it will be a pre-order. There are a few rare instances where someone buys the item a couple seconds before you do and the inventory system didn't get a chance to re-sync, but other than that, you're always going to know by looking at the product page that it isn't in stock.

Backorders and pre-orders are two different things, right? A pre-order is on a brand new item that has never before been available - of course it's a waiting game. Backorders are on an item that had previously been in stock, and is now no longer in stock. In the past I've had some eventful back and forth with your agents, via the chat window, about whether an item is actually in stock or not. In the end it turned out not to be, but that was not indicated on your website.

In all fairness, I have not actually tried to purchase anything from Prymaxe for over a year now, in part because of some of the hiccups in the past, and in part because I have a good set of gear now and am not buying as many pedals anymore, so perhaps your webpage has been improved and I am working from a stale cache of memories. Entirely possible.

You guys do offer great prices and generally have a good stock of the hottest pedals. Just the purchase interaction itself has in the past left me less than delighted. Software that doesn't delight ends up not getting used unless someone is paying the user to use it.

 

[Mosfed]

Uh, you are from Russia, right? And Prymaxe is from New Jersey, USA, right? Is your bank account with a Russian bank by chance?

I am an international customer and none of his hassle has anything to do with being an international customer. It has to do with Prymaxe holding onto customer funds for extra time to help with their cash flow. Nothing more.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I am an international customer and none of his hassle has anything to do with being an international customer. It has to do with Prymaxe holding onto customer funds for extra time to help with their cash flow. Nothing more.

What country are you in? The rules and regulations concerning funds transfers is heavily dependent on both the source and destination country. For example, it is much easier to send money to Canada than it is to North Korea.

 

[Mosfed]

What country are you in? The rules and regulations concerning funds transfers is heavily dependent on both the source and destination country. For example, it is much easier to send money to Canada than it is to North Korea.

How would you explain Prymaxe doing this to US customers?

 

[willsellout]

I am an international customer and none of his hassle has anything to do with being an international customer. It has to do with Prymaxe holding onto customer funds for extra time to help with their cash flow. Nothing more.

That's quite the accusation.

 

[monkeyfinger]

I can't. I was referring to the original comment. I asked if he was in Russia because his profile indicates so.

 

[willsellout]

How would you explain Prymaxe doing this to US customers?

Is this something that they are known to have done to US customers? If so, its news to me.

 

[jwr]

I want to ask a probably non important question here but I'm curious.

Why did Prymaxe drop the Vintage part of the name? Anyone know?

 

[Prymaxe]

It's because not every manufacturer wants to be included in sales. Strymons are so g. d. pretty they will not allow it! But to the PROGRAMMERS here...is there any reason all that data can't be encoded onto the product so you are notified when a product is ineligible? does any else use this 'e-mail us when the code doesn't work' gambit? seems messy.

Yes, there are other sites that tell you to call/email/chat when the code doesn't work.

Backorders and pre-orders are two different things, right? A pre-order is on a brand new item that has never before been available - of course it's a waiting game. Backorders are on an item that had previously been in stock, and is now no longer in stock. In the past I've had some eventful back and forth with your agents, via the chat window, about whether an item is actually in stock or not. In the end it turned out not to be, but that was not indicated on your website.

In all fairness, I have not actually tried to purchase anything from Prymaxe for over a year now, in part because of some of the hiccups in the past, and in part because I have a good set of gear now and am not buying as many pedals anymore, so perhaps your webpage has been improved and I am working from a stale cache of memories. Entirely possible.

You guys do offer great prices and generally have a good stock of the hottest pedals. Just the purchase interaction itself has in the past left me less than delighted. Software that doesn't delight ends up not getting used unless someone is paying the user to use it.

I see what you're saying about the differences in the terminology. We call them the same on our site, though. If an item is out of stock but we're allowing pre/backorders on that item, there will be a "Pre-Order" button in place of the "Add to Cart" button, and once you add it to your cart, it will also say it there, too. I'm not sure when your last purchase was, but we switched webstore hosts in November 2015, which is also shortly after I started working here, so I don't remember the old site too well or how it worked. We also switched inventory software in March 2017. With each switch, it has always been to a better platform, but of course some hiccups/glitches as we start to figure stuff out. Our newest software has developers that are pretty good about fixing any issues we come across and implementing new features for us; sometimes they just take a while to be built/fixed. But we constantly are looking on how we can improve things and always have several tickets open with them at once. And of course we always take and appreciate feedback from customers on how we can make our site easier to use and understand.

 

[Prymaxe]

I want to ask a probably non important question here but I'm curious.

Why did Prymaxe drop the Vintage part of the name? Anyone know?

The owners (dad and son) used to focus on buying and selling vintage guitars. Then they branched out into boutique pedals and eventually bigger name brands. They kept the name for a few more years, but they're not in the vintage guitar business anymore so a few years ago they decided it just didn't make sense to keep calling it Prymaxe Vintage.

 

[DarkArchitect]

Is this something that they are known to have done to US customers? If so, its news to me.

well, several TB members indicated their experiences here including the ones from US, right here in this post, like @jwr or @petrus61 or @Maxfenderbass from Canada or @HappyFunTime69 from God knows where but probably somewhere over there, but again it will look like me complaining about things here and there....

 

[Prymaxe]

I am an international customer and none of his hassle has anything to do with being an international customer. It has to do with Prymaxe holding onto customer funds for extra time to help with their cash flow. Nothing more.

Once your order is cancelled/refunded by us, the processing time is out of your our hands. We canceled and refunded his order on the 15th. We were not holding onto his money this whole time. It just happened to take a long time for his bank or credit card company to process the refund.

 

[Mosfed]

That's quite the accusation.

So I bet you also think that money transfers actually take days huh? This isn't exactly an uncommon business practice amongst volume retailers - it can make a huge difference in cash flow. I have a US credit card and US address in addition to being international and Prymaxe double charged me twice for merchandise and each time held my credit hostage for as much as 4-5 business days. We are going back almost 3 years at this point but I didn't give them a third chance.