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Do you sub?
- Thread starter gln1955
- Start date
I sub a fair amount. In the musical theater realm it is rather common. There is a group of four of us who are all fairly accomplished doublers on upright and electric, we all sub for each other. Within the last few weeks, I subbed one night each for two shows, The Prom and The Addams Family. I was originally slated to sub a couple of nights for Jesus Christ Superstar, but ended up playing for the full run.
Currently, I am the sub for a 70s-80s Pop/smooth jazz style band (think Grover Washington Jr., George Benson, etc.) where the talented BL writes about half the material. I get solos on about a quarter of the material. The BL pays the band for one rehearsal before a show.
Those kinds of gigs require reading standard notation, lead sheets and/or chord charts skills. If I have the material before hand, I spend a good 8-10 hours of preparation, depending on whether it is a show I’ve played before, reading through the book, working out complex passages, figuring out fingerings, bow articulations, when and how to switch between acoustic and electric, etc., just as I would if it were my own show. I presume my subs do the same. That preparation time cost gets amortized over the course of the entire run of a show when it is my own, but when subbing for one night it isn’t the best from a financial perspective. That is why I try to pay my subs about 1.5x the going appearance rate.
For many years, I was the principal sub for a bunch of rock/country/blues/pop/jazz/corporate type bands. Sometimes there were charts available, most often not. In those cases, I created my own charts if I wasn’t able to find anything online. Most of those didn’t get rehearsal, it was show up and play.
For my own bands, I have charts for everything, mostly in standard notation, some lead sheet/chord charts. That way they are available to my subs when necessary.
Currently, I am the sub for a 70s-80s Pop/smooth jazz style band (think Grover Washington Jr., George Benson, etc.) where the talented BL writes about half the material. I get solos on about a quarter of the material. The BL pays the band for one rehearsal before a show.
Those kinds of gigs require reading standard notation, lead sheets and/or chord charts skills. If I have the material before hand, I spend a good 8-10 hours of preparation, depending on whether it is a show I’ve played before, reading through the book, working out complex passages, figuring out fingerings, bow articulations, when and how to switch between acoustic and electric, etc., just as I would if it were my own show. I presume my subs do the same. That preparation time cost gets amortized over the course of the entire run of a show when it is my own, but when subbing for one night it isn’t the best from a financial perspective. That is why I try to pay my subs about 1.5x the going appearance rate.
For many years, I was the principal sub for a bunch of rock/country/blues/pop/jazz/corporate type bands. Sometimes there were charts available, most often not. In those cases, I created my own charts if I wasn’t able to find anything online. Most of those didn’t get rehearsal, it was show up and play.
For my own bands, I have charts for everything, mostly in standard notation, some lead sheet/chord charts. That way they are available to my subs when necessary.
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I used to think I would like to do that, and I would if someone really needed me in a pinch, but it is stessful for sure. The one I did sub on one gig for a buddy, I didn't have charts, not my normal kind of music to play, and it went ok but not great. However we did such a great version of one song I was familiar with we got a $100 tip and that was a song bass was pretty prominent in, so that felt good.
I'd much rather spend more time writing music than trying to sub or learn songs for a sub gig these days.
I'd much rather spend more time writing music than trying to sub or learn songs for a sub gig these days.
I voted "Other". I never have but I would under the right conditions. I would need plenty of time to learn their songs and I rarely play slap style, so there's that.
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Ok, I live in KC, what are these Russian bands you speak of? Sounds intriguing
When I gigged a lot more, I subbed a lot for jazz gigs. We played a lot of standards and I would bring my Real Book just in case.
I probably wouldn't sub on a gig that I don't already know the songs unless it was something that I was really interested in playing, or if I really wanted the gig in the long term.
I probably wouldn't sub on a gig that I don't already know the songs unless it was something that I was really interested in playing, or if I really wanted the gig in the long term.
I do a handful or so sub (or 'dep') gigs as we tend to call them over this side of the pond, short for deputy. I just love playing live and having the opportunity to do these gigs without auditioning (phew) is really good. Yes i do find the prep stressful especially when given different versions of songs previously unknown, that I have to unlearn. Getting a last minute dep is also a pressure situation.
Overall i would like more of them but in different genres.
Overall i would like more of them but in different genres.
There was a time when most of my gigs were covering for bassists, mainly who contracted Covid-19. One caught it four times and ended up hospitalized, sadly, but is now back playing again, thankfully. I enjoy the challenges of subbing, and I like meeting new players, too. Getting called to fill in for really good players helps me keep my chops together, especially my reading chops.
I haven't really done it before but I would like to try it. Hit me up lol.
I've only done it once, for an original rock band led by a good friend, which had an important gig at a Relay for Life event. That was meaningful for me, because my mother-in-law was in remission from cancer at the time.
A couple of months before the show, the bassist's wife suspected he was involved with the (extremely attractive) drummer, so she smashed his bass in the street. Hence their need for a sub. All very rock n' roll IMO.
So I learned all their originals, plus a few covers they planned for the event. Then, just so I didn't spend so much time for only one show, they booked one on a Saturday night in NYC, and it was one of the best shows I've ever played. My mother-in-law was there, and it was her only chance to see me on stage before her cancer returned.
All in all, a great experience. I recorded the NYC show and still listen to it sometimes, almost 19 years later.
A couple of months before the show, the bassist's wife suspected he was involved with the (extremely attractive) drummer, so she smashed his bass in the street. Hence their need for a sub. All very rock n' roll IMO.
So I learned all their originals, plus a few covers they planned for the event. Then, just so I didn't spend so much time for only one show, they booked one on a Saturday night in NYC, and it was one of the best shows I've ever played. My mother-in-law was there, and it was her only chance to see me on stage before her cancer returned.
All in all, a great experience. I recorded the NYC show and still listen to it sometimes, almost 19 years later.
I sub, not a whole lot, but only music I already know. Not trying to learn a book of tunes especially music outside my wheelhouse. Old school R&B, Funk, Soul, Disco and Pop music is where I live and stay!
I sub, though mostly bar stuff. My current old-school country-flavored band came about as a result of subbing.
Reasonable tribute-band sub opportunity coming up that I'm crossing my fingers in hopes of an accurate performance setlist vs learning "everything".
Two least-prepared gigs I've subbed for, both with no setlists despite multiple requests for one, turned out ok and fun, so I don't sweat what I've got no control over. If it's a classic cover and I've heard it before, we'll probably get through it after maybe a questionable start.
Though I still prefer and ask for setlists so I can actually be prepared.
Reasonable tribute-band sub opportunity coming up that I'm crossing my fingers in hopes of an accurate performance setlist vs learning "everything".
Two least-prepared gigs I've subbed for, both with no setlists despite multiple requests for one, turned out ok and fun, so I don't sweat what I've got no control over. If it's a classic cover and I've heard it before, we'll probably get through it after maybe a questionable start.
Though I still prefer and ask for setlists so I can actually be prepared.
I don't sub but I use subs. These days I write out a chart for almost every single song, no matter how simple to make it as easy as possible for the subs.
This was after I played with the world's worst sub. My regular bass player was out, but my drummer said he knew someone really good. My drummer is really good, so I figured, OK. The sub didn't want to do a paid rehearsal, but I insisted. It's a good thing too because, he hadn't spent even a minute going through the material. Immediately after the rehearsal I wrote out a chart for everything and sent them to him. We played the gig and I don't know what the hell he was doing, but he was just really awful. I don't think he played a single song correctly the whole night and I'm talking about 12 bar rock songs like Great Balls of Fire, Chuck Berry's Carol and other songs with three chords which repeat the same pattern the entire song.
Fortunately the club manager loved us and we have been playing the club regularly ever since. It just proves that song selection is everything. But I can tell you that I'd cancel a gig before I'd play with that horses posterior again. The only funny part is that he was over on the other side of the stage acting like, "Yeah, I've got this. I'm all that and a bag of chips." Well, he wasn't even the bag of chips.
Can anyone tell that I'm still mad about that?
This was after I played with the world's worst sub. My regular bass player was out, but my drummer said he knew someone really good. My drummer is really good, so I figured, OK. The sub didn't want to do a paid rehearsal, but I insisted. It's a good thing too because, he hadn't spent even a minute going through the material. Immediately after the rehearsal I wrote out a chart for everything and sent them to him. We played the gig and I don't know what the hell he was doing, but he was just really awful. I don't think he played a single song correctly the whole night and I'm talking about 12 bar rock songs like Great Balls of Fire, Chuck Berry's Carol and other songs with three chords which repeat the same pattern the entire song.
Fortunately the club manager loved us and we have been playing the club regularly ever since. It just proves that song selection is everything. But I can tell you that I'd cancel a gig before I'd play with that horses posterior again. The only funny part is that he was over on the other side of the stage acting like, "Yeah, I've got this. I'm all that and a bag of chips." Well, he wasn't even the bag of chips.
Can anyone tell that I'm still mad about that?
Funny - I just picked up my second sub gig this week… for my own band! Our drummer is going to be out in June for a gig and he never misses gigs, so they don’t have a drum sub. But they have a ton of bass subs so I agreed to do drums that night and play with one of their sub bassists. I’m actually looking forward to it - now I have to pay a little more attention to what he’s doing on some of our songs since we don’t do them exactly like the originals and switching from bass to drums is a major brain switch…
I greatly admire this kind of skill. I'm fine with chord charts and numbers charts - I sometimes write them for bands I work with - but put some actual notation in front of me? Fahgettaboudit. I'd need lots of time to work that up and memorize it.
This isn’t something that came easily for me either. I have been playing out for over 50 years now. Yikes! Like many of us, I learned to play by ear. After playing in rock bands, I began to play with some students and faculty from the University of Iowa music department, playing in a jazzy/pop band. I was a total noob, but I started to learn chord theory and how to play from chord charts.
A few years later, I was playing in a wedding/banquet band. The keyboard player, who was also a bass player, asked me during the break if I could sub for him the following weekend. Thinking that it was another wedding, I said sure. Turned out he wanted me to sub for him on a high school production of Shenandoah. I got the book a day or two beforehand. Fortunately, it is not a terribly complicated bass score. By then, I knew “Good Boys Deserve Favor Always” and “All Cows Eat Grass” but couldn’t actually read, certainly not at tempo. I penciled in the note names above each measure. I knew enough rhythm notation to play basic Broadway Two and Three, quarter half and whole notes. However, it was largely my ear that got me through it. I was sitting next to the pianist, and whatever she played with her left hand, I played. I certainly got some funny looks from the conductor at times, but I guess it wasn’t too bad - she hired me for her next show.
I enjoyed the challenge of playing musicals, and decided if I want to do that well, I'm going to have to learn how to read. I got involved with local community theaters and high school productions, as well as continuing to play in rock/pop, jazz and show bands. My next musical was Godspell. Again, my ear helped me through a lot of it. I’ll have to say, Alas For You with it switching from 7/4, 6/8, 5/8, 4/4, 6/4 almost every measure, required tons of practice on my part.
in my late 20s, after having music as the primary focus in my life professionally, I decided to go back to finish college then grad school, but studying my other interest, biochemistry and molecular biology. During undergrad I minored in music, that gave me a better understanding of Western theory. But, I spent the bulk of my career as a scientist in the pharmaceutical industry doing early phase target identification and validation in cardiovascular and metabolic diseases.
Over the years I just practiced, practiced, practiced, I still try to sight read new material every day. Musical theater is now and has been my primary musical genre. A very active avocation for me. I play for professional regional theater, community, college, school productions and some Off-Off Broadway.
I voted "other". I haven't, and I'm not planning to right now, but I wouldn't say it's not my thing.
I just started back playing in a band again a couple of years ago after a decades-long layoff. We're playing about as much as I want to play right now, but after I retire in a couple of years I'm probably going to add some work and that's something I'd pursue.
I just started back playing in a band again a couple of years ago after a decades-long layoff. We're playing about as much as I want to play right now, but after I retire in a couple of years I'm probably going to add some work and that's something I'd pursue.