Second pro tip: Setting your amp with all the knobs at noon is rarely flat. Many amps have baked in eq - most of the time, it's mid scooped.
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Feeling pressure to go ampless
- Thread starter jdh3000
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- ampless using iems
I don't care about this one way or the other. No dog in this fight. I use IEMs when I'm asked to, and I prefer them when stage volume would be a problem without them. I play jazz half the time, so stage volume is a feature, not a bug for much of my work. The post I responded to said no professional musician would turn away from a gig because it required IEMs. I posted an example of a situation where IEM use was an issue for one of the biggest acts in history. I think Phish had a similar reservations. I know for a fact that Andy Irvine -- a busy and well respected working professional -- rarely if ever uses in ears. And I've never run into a situation involving a production company where they weren't happy to offer you a wedge if you want one, and I don't see why a band would stop a musician from using a wedge or a hotspot to monitor if they wanted to.
I'm just using a Fender Rumble 500 as an amp... in this situation I don't even bring my extension, just behind me elevated a little off the floor.
I preamp-DI with an MXR M81 with a Broughton hpf, also using a Cali76 comp mildly...
I get a a good stage mix that gels with what I'm hearing around me. I can distinguish what I'm playing from everything else, it's not jumbled up and not too loud, I just need enough to hear it thump and keep it locked in with the drummer.
For some reason with the monitor mix it's mostly the opposite of what I need.
It's not unusual for your amp to fight with a nearby monitor or subs. So I generally do not like to run my bass through my monitor if I am using an amp. Sometimes it can work well, but often it does not. When it does not work well, adding bass to the monitor will make the bass sound louder, but it will harder to hear your pitch when the rest of the band is playing.
There are couple of factors behind the problem.
1. The distance from both cabs to your ears may not be equal. The result is comb filtering. You should have control over this. Pick a place to stand and then move either the amp or monitor so they are equal distance from your ears.
2. When you use dissimilar cab designs, there tends to be differences in their phase and group delay characteristics. For the frequencies where the variance between cabs is sufficiently large, they will tend to fight. My understanding is these variances are related to cab and port tuning, so they mostly effect frequencies <100hz.
You don't have much control over this other than trying to find a bass cab and monitor that work well together. IMHO a trick you can try is to have your monitor high passed above the range where the ports become active. Then you rely on your bass cab for lows and the monitor just adds a bit of clarity.
3. Another potential problem is the amp and monitor may be out of phase. Sometimes inverting the polarity of one signal can eliminate the problem are at least shift it to a frequency where it is less problematic. Some mixers have a polarity switch on the channel strips. Also some DIs have a polarity switch.
I suppose that the question I need to bring up in rehearsal.
I just don't want them to think I'm wanting to cause trouble.
If that is what everyone had agreed there really should've been some mention of it on the hire in. But I know they were just needing to fill a spot and probably not thing about the amp situation.
I'll figure out a way to talk to them with sounding rebellious, just a stating of facts that I feel better, sound better, play better and hear better with my amp, just as I'm sure that's why they continue to use theirs.
One possibility. Let's assume all of the monitors are the same and bass is being sent to all of them. Identical cabs will tend to get along better than dissimilar cabs. So adding a bass amp may degrade the sound other band members hear. Adding the bass amp could potentially degrade the sound the audiences hears as well.
So there could be some legitimate basis. However, I still think it's BS to prioritize the quality of bass heard by the guitar player over the quality of bass heard by the bassist. In my experience this sort of BS is not unusual.
These are ideas...I am not saying this is what is happening. IMHO, whatever the band decides should be applied consistently. Either everyone is free to use an amp or no one is allowed to use an amp. That does not mean everyone should be free to play as loud as they want.
I have dealt with similar requests:
Years ago I was asked to do an Easter service in a big Church. This was a last minute request as there regular bassist had been called away. They wanted me to do the service on a DI with no amp and no monitor in a big rumbly room. I told them either I use my amp or they find another bass player. I did the gig and they expressed an interest in adding me to their call list. I declined as the gig was done as a favor and not something I wanted to do on a regular basis.
That's exactly my point. If it was "You need to get a set of IEMS", it may be one thing, even though I'm not sure how they'd work for me...and if I can get an affordable set I'd be willing to try.
I guess it's just not making sense to me that if my sound isn't being isolated from the rest of the band via IEMS, then what's the point?
Truth is I've wanted to get In in this group for a while. I like them and this seems to be the only issue so far. And no one has flat out told me I have to yet, but I just feel like that may may be next.
I suppose I just need to discuss it openly and honestly with them.
Granted it'd be great not to have to wag an extra piece of gear, but if I'm not hearing my playing in a way that feels right, it's very difficult. IEMS may cure all that, and with some of the recommendations here I may be able to get an affordable set.
I have the same IEMs.
I've only used them once or twice - nice, but I still prefer an amp and a wedge for vocals only. I like to hear the band in the space.
This is a rhetoricl question - but what's the difference between using a "monitor" and an "amp" to monitor yourself?
One is in front of you, and one is behind you?
If the option really is no amp, but a floor wedges is fine - I'd buy a QSC CP12, and use my pedal preamp of choice plugged directly into Ch.1 of the QSC. Then, basically you have an amp - but it looks like a floor monitor.
I'd split the signal - one to my monitor / secret amp, and then a dry signal (JDI or something) to the house.. You would have total control of your "amp" and the guys would be none-the-wiser. They could mix in what ever signal you are sending to the house in their wedges or IEMs.
If you need vocals, then run your aux mix into channel 2 of your wedge and mix in what ever you need (vox / guitars - but not your Bass because you already have that in there and have separate control over it).
HPF / LPF or cab sim probably needed (Q\strip or something). At that point, you basically have an amp, but the other guys in your band will think you are using a monitor - because it looks like a monitor.
All this to say - it's probably an aesthetic type thing, so make a rig that works for you and them.
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I'm just mixed in with what they've mixed for themselves. I'll look at the board and see if there are any other options but as far as I know, the BL gets a separate mix the way he wants it and the band shares their own mix.
Do what is comfortable for you. I want to feel it and hear it no matter the gig size, I still schlep a big rig,Aguilar Db750 and GS412 cab. I’ve tried sharing wedges, it’s not the same but it’ll work in a pinch. Never tried in ears, if I start playing world tours, I’ll give them a try
Don’t ever let guitar players or singers decide your rig, that’s bass law
Don’t ever let guitar players or singers decide your rig, that’s bass law
This is how I feel... I spent money on amps, preamps, basses to get my sound right, just to wind up sound like I'm playing in jug through stage monitors.
Just a thought or two.
If they are all running amps but running bass through open monitors then are they really hearing the bassist? You know, the one who keeps everything together.
Or are they all really just playing alone but in the same room?
If this group does listen to each other then it’s a technical discussion. If they are not then that’s an even worse problem.
If they are all running amps but running bass through open monitors then are they really hearing the bassist? You know, the one who keeps everything together.
Or are they all really just playing alone but in the same room?
If this group does listen to each other then it’s a technical discussion. If they are not then that’s an even worse problem.
That's some very useful info. I'll try flipping the polarity switch on my DI.
If I can make it it work, I won't mind doing it. It'd make hauling gear a little easier.
Thank you!
Weird demand for sure. I've been playing an ongoing gig at a Casino and the sound people fussed so much about my amp that I stopped bringing it! I run direct into a DI and they provide me a monitor (LOL, go figure). They kept telling me I was too loud! The 2 guitar players and keyboard player all use amps. I chalked it up to inexperience as I don't play loud at all. I do admit, it's nice not having to drag in my rig.
I can't speak for your situation but I don't like that it's just you they ask not to use an amp. Maybe try dialing it back a bit. Not so bass heavy. Is your band a rock band?
I can't speak for your situation but I don't like that it's just you they ask not to use an amp. Maybe try dialing it back a bit. Not so bass heavy. Is your band a rock band?
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Ah, that can be tricky then as I'm guessing the shared mix between everyone else is probably ideal for what you'd like to hear. I'm pretty new to IEM's so I don't know what tech is involved to get the individually controlled mixes that we've been using. We use our guitar players IEM system and it seems to have some sort of mixer with a router to connect to it using wifi with phones to adjust individual mixes. Perhaps if the band is really serious about going the IEM route you can all invest in a system like that as a long term solution.
I own 2 of the P2's. They can receive a stereo signal as well as mono. There is an internal switch that can switch depending on the signal you're receiving.
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