Feeling pressure to go ampless

#61
DWBass said:
Weird demand for sure. I've been playing an ongoing gig at a Casino and the sound people fussed so much about my amp that I stopped bringing it! I run direct into a DI and they provide me a monitor (LOL, go figure). They kept telling me I was too loud! The 2 guitar players and keyboard player all use amps. I chalked it up to inexperience as I don't play loud at all. I do admit, it's nice not having to drag in my rig.

I can't speak for your situation but I don't like that it's just you they ask not to use an amp. Maybe try dialing it back a bit. Not so bass heavy. Is your band a rock band?
Click to expand...
Classic 70s/80s rock and contemporary country.
 
#62
DWBass said:
Weird demand for sure. I've been playing an ongoing gig at a Casino and the sound people fussed so much about my amp that I stopped bringing it! I run direct into a DI and they provide me a monitor (LOL, go figure). They kept telling me I was too loud! The 2 guitar players and keyboard player all use amps. I chalked it up to inexperience as I don't play loud at all. I do admit, it's nice not having to drag in my rig.

I can't speak for your situation but I don't like that it's just you they ask not to use an amp. Maybe try dialing it back a bit. Not so bass heavy. Is your band a rock band?
Click to expand...


Classic 70s/80s rock and contemporary country.

I try to boost mids, keep the mid out but keep a good low end, and sit in the mix good.
 
#65
Parzival said:
I would ask them why is it so important for you to go ampless when everyone else uses an amp? I would tell them point blank, I'll go ampless when everyone else goes ampless.

I have found when it is not the bass player or an outside sound person that knows what they are doing mixing the sound, the bass gets shafted. I went and saw some guys I know play last weekend. The bass player does the sound and has an amp on stage. They sounded awesome. I've have tried telling our guitar players that when a crowd or club thinks we are too loud (we aren't and we hardly ever hear it but out guitar/sound person and lead singer are always way too paranoid about it), it is because of the guitars or drum kit (snare/cymbals). The higher frequencies are what bother people, not the lower frequencies coming from bass and kick. People want to feel the music. Some sound people just don't get it. Because they play guitar most of the time IME.

When going ampless, you are still only as good as the person running sound, even moreso. There is a band we know that is totally ampless and they are too loud to the point it just sounds like a messy wall of sound. Guitar player runs sound and the guitar is so loud it will hurt your ears.

I get a little heated on this subject and like to vent so I appreciate the topic. There is nothing wrong with running amps on stage. Folks have been doing it forever. If it doesn't sound good, it is a sound person issue. If they know what they are doing, it should be no problem.
Click to expand...

That's perfect! Or, tell them to buy your IEMs and all will soon be what they want. You aren't the other bass player!
 
  • Like
Reactions: shoot-r, FRoss6788 and jdh3000
#67
pepj said:
I'd ignore it. Other players might not give a hoot about your sound so dealing with it is your problem.
Tell them you cant afford it and that the end of it.
On another note who is running your sound outfront and through what kit?
Click to expand...
It's just a peavey 24 channel board. It's nothing fancy and just the guitar player running it, no sound guy out front. Splitting monitor off two separate sends going to powered monitors, one for the BL and the other for the band.

I've already let them know I don't have the money right now to get set up with an IEM setup...
I just don't get the desire to me hearing my amp through floor monitors.

If everyone was ampless it might make more sense, still wouldn't sound the same, but I could see the point of controlling stage volume better.

I'm just going to have a talk with them all and tell them this is how I'm able to play my best, I can't afford IEMs and floor monitors just aren't cutting it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Beej
#68
Wasnex said:
One possibility. Let's assume all of the monitors are the same and bass is being sent to all of them. Identical cabs will tend to get along better than dissimilar cabs. So adding a bass amp may degrade the sound other band members hear. Adding the bass amp could potentially degrade the sound the audiences hears as well.

So there could be some legitimate basis. However, I still think it's BS to prioritize the quality of bass heard by the guitar player over the quality of bass heard by the bassist. In my experience this sort of BS is not unusual.

These are ideas...I am not saying this is what is happening. IMHO, whatever the band decides should be applied consistently. Either everyone is free to use an amp or no one is allowed to use an amp. That does not mean everyone should be free to play as loud as they want.

I have dealt with similar requests:
Years ago I was asked to do an Easter service in a big Church. This was a last minute request as there regular bassist had been called away. They wanted me to do the service on a DI with no amp and no monitor in a big rumbly room. I told them either I use my amp or they find another bass player. I did the gig and they expressed an interest in adding me to their call list. I declined as the gig was done as a favor and not something I wanted to do on a regular basis.
Click to expand...
Beside the one you mentioned, there are other possible reasons. Maybe OP feels he is not loud, but that's not how others feel. I used to play with guitar player who would point his amp at his knees and shoot me in the face across stage with piercing overplaying. No amount of explaining from tone guys or me would help. Maybe OP isn't problematic, but they had row of bassists slam them on stage and are just done with it.
Maybe OP is simply not good enough player to join the club of "can be heard on stage" musicians in the band (sorry OP, no offense). I've met that elitism before, they need bass player but are not happy how he plays. So, they mix him low. Again, sorry OP, not putting you down, I'm probably wrong.
I do agree it's unusual for some musicians to use monitors/amps, and to insist other don't use it.
In the end, OP can only talk to them to understand where he sits as musician in band hierarchy. Once you are band ace, you dictate the rules. Otherwise, you just adopt to request.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex
#71
jdh3000 said:
Just got in a band where the former bass player used IEMS and a preamp/DI. A couple of the band members have approached me about not using an amp and just using a stage monitor. I have a pre/DI, so that's not an issue.. I don't have IEMS and can't really afford a decent set, and not real sure if they'd work for me. A few weeks ago we played a small venue where stage space was tight, so I tried it. The sound was ok-ish but not ideal; however we we playing at low volumes. Last gig I thought I'd give it another try, but this time we were in a larger venue and the my stage sound was aweful and nothing I could really fix with the preamp. Granted they can give me my own monitor mix but the rhe stage sound for me just isn't working. Everyone else in the group is using amps, and I know all the previous bass players used amps. For some reason the last one in his short time with them set some sort of precedent that I'm expected to follow. I'm using the smallest amp I have and just for stage volume. I don't play excessively loud, just with it near me so I can hear it. The BL hasn't approached me about this, but it may be he's having these others take care of it. I don't want to mess this gig up, nor do I want to get on anyone's bad side, I've just always used an amp and don't feel like I play my best without it. I know a lot of players are going with IEMS but I don't personally know any who are using floor monitors. I really don't know what I should do. I appreciate any advice.
Click to expand...

in a different thread, we were talking about the Rolls PM351. It’s a personal monitor mixer that has three channels with individual volume controls.
One channel is for the mix from the board.
One channel is a pass through for your microphone.
One channel is for your bass.

I use one with a pair of corded (you can also do wireless) ZS10 IEM as others have described.

I did get the Ernie Ball combined 1/4” bass cord and headphone cord. It’s thick but convenient.

The Rolls lets you adjust volume as you need. The sound from my Sansamp or Zoom preamps/effects sound great in headphones, but I’m used to it from years of headphone rehearsals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jdh3000
#72
shirojiro said:
in a different thread, we were talking about the Rolls PM351. It’s a personal monitor mixer that has three channels with individual volume controls.
One channel is for the mix from the board.
One channel is a pass through for your microphone.
One channel is for your bass.

I use one with a pair of corded (you can also do wireless) ZS10 IEM as others have described.

I did get the Ernie Ball combined 1/4” bass cord and headphone cord. It’s thick but convenient.

The Rolls lets you adjust volume as you need. The sound from my Sansamp or Zoom preamps/effects sound great in headphones, but I’m used to it from years of headphone rehearsals.
Click to expand...
The Rolls PM351 is very affordable and a great option. Our guitar player uses one and loves it.
 
#74
jdh3000 said:
It's just a peavey 24 channel board. It's nothing fancy and just the guitar player running it, no sound guy out front. Splitting monitor off two separate sends going to powered monitors, one for the BL and the other for the band.

I've already let them know I don't have the money right now to get set up with an IEM setup...
I just don't get the desire to me hearing my amp through floor monitors.

If everyone was ampless it might make more sense, still wouldn't sound the same, but I could see the point of controlling stage volume better.

I'm just going to have a talk with them all and tell them this is how I'm able to play my best, I can't afford IEMs and floor monitors just aren't cutting it.
Click to expand...
I'm not master at this stuff, but I do play with IEMs with both of my current bands. I use the cheap amazon KZ's mentioned back on the first page and they are sound cancelling such that I cannot hear my amp. Granted, I get a fully custom mix of my own that I can adjust, so if I want more bass or to change levels of other instruments, I can do that quickly.

What you wrote and I bolded above, tells me your band's current setup cannot give you a personally customizable mix, but instead you'll hear the same send that is provided 'to the band'. In my own experience, there is no way I could play with that kind of set up and not have an amp to provide stage sound. Been there, done that, couldn't hear myself and tossed that setup aside.

A good mix with IEMs is life-changing IMHO though, especially if you are also a vocalist. The right IEMs can be incredible - with our setup, I don't need an amp on stage, and I couldn't hear it over my sound-cancelled mix anyway. :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: BassGuyFL and jdh3000
#75
I recently bought these -

Linsoul KZ ZS10 PRO 2 In Ear Monitor IEM​

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com
Black Friday Deal - $43.99.

They have a 4 band EQ. I have all 4 in the "up" position which enhances bass and cuts the piercing highs. They sound great. I highly recommend these. I would also recommend buying an extension cable since the chord on these is pretty short. It has made playing with or without an amp no big deal at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jdh3000
#76
Beej said:
there is no way I could play with that kind of set up and not have an amp to provide stage sound. Been there, done that, couldn't hear myself and tossed that setup aside.
Click to expand...


That is exactly what the Rolls PM351 addresses. It allows you to balance your bass and vocals against a generic monitor mix. You can adjust the level of all three signals without impacting the signals going to FOH.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: shirojiro and Beej
#77
Like mentioned earlier, the best option is to ask the band for a reason. That said, the band's tech level seems quite low. If the band insists on someone going ampless they should at least provide an individual monitor mix. Stagebox-format digital mixers with plenty of AUXes (and processing!) are dirt cheap. The band should also provide a professional wedge if an amp or IEMs are not an option.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jdh3000
#78
Exactly.

To me, going ampless requires a certain minimum level of house system quality and sound engineer skill to have me even consider the idea.

Not every club system will yield acceptable results when it comes to bass.
Windreaper said:
Like mentioned earlier, the best option is to ask the band for a reason. That said, the band's tech level seems quite low. If the band insists on someone going ampless they should at least provide an individual monitor mix. Stagebox-format digital mixers with plenty of AUXes (and processing!) are dirt cheap. The band should also provide a professional wedge if an amp or IEMs are not an option.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ferarayabass, shoot-r, jdh3000 and 1 other person
#80
So, OP, did you ever ask, and did you ever get a straight answer, about why they want you specifically to go ampless?

Until you do that, all this nattering on about the details of this or that electronic doohickey and how to set it is really just wasting electrons.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back