Yes, I think I'm trying to sort out which compromises to make. (See my comment about "rearranging the same furniture inside a room that's neither the right size nor shape" above.)
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
Welcome to TalkBass! Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
"Final FX" Confessional: Help me end my GAS and option paralysis once and for all
- Thread starter misterk73
- Start date
OK, so this is something I haven't really considered before and it seems to have potential. I DO have a good amp with an effects loop. With something like the Spark GO, it seems like I could have wireless footswitch control for program changes and toggling individual effects on and off. Doesn't get me away from software/apps BUT I could connect wirelessly to the phone or table and the touch UI would emulate a real pedal and pedalboard. Sound quality seems questionable, and I wonder if "real time" adjustments are viable. Thanks for the idea @mambo4!
You familiar with the IK Multimedia ToneX stuff?? If it was just me at home with no plans to play out or with others, I wouldn't mind menu diving. Just saying. Seems you're being super picky on a super limited budget. But maybe I just don't get it
I also have a Spark GO haha Just a heads up, if you're a fan of hearing and feeling the low end, it is questionable at best. It's a great setup for playing around. But I think it's much more suited for guitar. That little amp and enclosure simply aren't meant to handle bass frequencies. But then if you're just going to be at home and don't mind a tinny sounding amp for bass, could be the ticket. It sounds good in headphones though...
For what little it’s worth (me, a sample size of 1), I found the Bluetooth connectivity with brand new Apple gear buggy. It was a reproducible bug too, so I know it was their app. I had a Spark immediately before the QC. I could almost put up with the flakiness, but since I was invested in using their app tuner (no hardware tuner), it became too much. The Spark on the whole, I really wanted to work as a solution for a practice rig, but eventually gave up.
Last edited:
I’m a big fan of the Zoom multi fx, and have the B3n, G3n. Cheap and simple. I also have a line 6 pod hd500x. All these old tech devices work fine and are super cheap these days. I paid $80 for the Zoom G3n, and it was mint.
Sure, I have to build patches, and that can be done on the device or via usb. Once the patch is built, I can disconnect and get away from the screens.
Usually, if I want to practice, I just put on the headphones and go. The gear is all out on the end table, guitar or bass plugged in and sitting on a stand. ( no kids, or young animals running around the house at the moment).
I might plug in my phone or pad for playback or a lesson or practice material. Simple and quick. Just don’t wander off into YouTube or open a browser.
At those times, I’m not going to let myself get into sound chasing. I keep the blinders on and just work on the playing.
There’s other time for the computer hook up tweaking and exploring. So far, things like firmware updates have been few and far between.
I found the line 6 eco system to be too much computer stuff. I use the pod, and it sounds great, but rarely open the editor and spend time tweaking.
All the stand alone pedals have come and gone. A hassle of patch cables, power supplies, and various issues.
Most of my patches have an amp model, and a few effects, plus a slot for the drum machine and a looper. The Zoom has a much friendlier looper than the line 6. I’ll build related patches in adjacent slots, so I can expand the flavors.
I’ve played with garage band and the IK media stuff, but being in front of a screen and messing with the computer just kills it for me.
Seems like your vision is in quadcortex land but the budget is not. The $350 budget would buy some really nice headphones, and a used multi fx. And even landing a quad cortex might just create more option paralysis.
Sure, I have to build patches, and that can be done on the device or via usb. Once the patch is built, I can disconnect and get away from the screens.
Usually, if I want to practice, I just put on the headphones and go. The gear is all out on the end table, guitar or bass plugged in and sitting on a stand. ( no kids, or young animals running around the house at the moment).
I might plug in my phone or pad for playback or a lesson or practice material. Simple and quick. Just don’t wander off into YouTube or open a browser.
At those times, I’m not going to let myself get into sound chasing. I keep the blinders on and just work on the playing.
There’s other time for the computer hook up tweaking and exploring. So far, things like firmware updates have been few and far between.
I found the line 6 eco system to be too much computer stuff. I use the pod, and it sounds great, but rarely open the editor and spend time tweaking.
All the stand alone pedals have come and gone. A hassle of patch cables, power supplies, and various issues.
Most of my patches have an amp model, and a few effects, plus a slot for the drum machine and a looper. The Zoom has a much friendlier looper than the line 6. I’ll build related patches in adjacent slots, so I can expand the flavors.
I’ve played with garage band and the IK media stuff, but being in front of a screen and messing with the computer just kills it for me.
Seems like your vision is in quadcortex land but the budget is not. The $350 budget would buy some really nice headphones, and a used multi fx. And even landing a quad cortex might just create more option paralysis.
-I'll concur that Zoom has a number of inexpensive and very useful products. Very good sounding and dead simple (mostly) to dial in. I own a B3n and the new MS-60B+. The latter I've incorporated into a new board with several analog effects. I've gigged the B3n as a standalone for several years with very good results. Still I want more immediate control over various parameters. The 60B+ sounds great and offers a lot for the price.
-I've previously owned several Source Audio pedals (2 Aftershocks, C4 and Gemini) and the Line 6 HX Stomp/Effects. The HX sounded very good but not 3x better than my Zoom stuff. You'll absolutely need to spend time with software to get value out of those units (although the HX Effects is much easier to navigate from the onboard controls). As for Source Audio, I've never used a more frustrating and less intuitive platform. I could spend 1-2 hours on a computer trying to dial in a useful sound only to save it to the device and find that it doesn't work at all in a band setting, which then requires additional adjustments via phone or computer. It made me uninterested in playing music quite frankly. There's great sounds to be had in there but as a gigging musician, between life and work, I don't have the time or energy to spend fiddling around when I can spend slightly more on a couple of great sounding standalone pedals that I can adjust in seconds.
-With the MS-60B+ (tremendous value given you have amp/cab sims also) and a few other pedals (shop used- there's great deals out there) I have everything I need for my originals and cover bands.
Best of luck to you brother!
-I've previously owned several Source Audio pedals (2 Aftershocks, C4 and Gemini) and the Line 6 HX Stomp/Effects. The HX sounded very good but not 3x better than my Zoom stuff. You'll absolutely need to spend time with software to get value out of those units (although the HX Effects is much easier to navigate from the onboard controls). As for Source Audio, I've never used a more frustrating and less intuitive platform. I could spend 1-2 hours on a computer trying to dial in a useful sound only to save it to the device and find that it doesn't work at all in a band setting, which then requires additional adjustments via phone or computer. It made me uninterested in playing music quite frankly. There's great sounds to be had in there but as a gigging musician, between life and work, I don't have the time or energy to spend fiddling around when I can spend slightly more on a couple of great sounding standalone pedals that I can adjust in seconds.
-With the MS-60B+ (tremendous value given you have amp/cab sims also) and a few other pedals (shop used- there's great deals out there) I have everything I need for my originals and cover bands.
Best of luck to you brother!
I was very unhappy with more than one spark device I purchased. They are really guitar oriented. They did have a bass amp head but it was unreliable even after sending it back. I also didnt like most of the sounds I could get out of it.
On the other hand HX stomp, two notes stuff (opus and the cabsim in my ashdown), sound incredible and are dynamically responsive. Even the $130 zoom bass 60+ sounds great.
On the stomp I’ve never used the computer editor. I can do it all quickly now on the pedal with practice. Zoom is similar. Opus I used the computer and Bluetooth to phone.
I’ve got the S.A. spectrum and it sounds great but i did have to set up sounds and assign using the computer.
On the other hand HX stomp, two notes stuff (opus and the cabsim in my ashdown), sound incredible and are dynamically responsive. Even the $130 zoom bass 60+ sounds great.
On the stomp I’ve never used the computer editor. I can do it all quickly now on the pedal with practice. Zoom is similar. Opus I used the computer and Bluetooth to phone.
I’ve got the S.A. spectrum and it sounds great but i did have to set up sounds and assign using the computer.
I will preempt this with I have not read any other responses. I'm on somewhat of a similar path at the moment and just sharing my journey.
I've always been all digital. Started with a bfx-708 in highschool. Got a bass pod pro and used that for a long time. Eventually discovered that Zoom was still making newer technology in the same form factor as the 708 and got a B1XON around 2018 followed by a B1X Four in 2020.
I started exploring analog stuff in the last few months. Started with a Sonicake B factory preamp. Then got my first sansamp, a para driver v2 and a Joyo bass compressor.
This all lead me to understand something. The two most important things in your signal chain are a compressor and a preamp. Get a good flexible analog pedal for those two and you can go digital for the rest on just about anything else. My current plan is to use a zoom pedal of some sort for my "effects," put a compressor in front of that and a preamp/di after it.
Edit: just wanted to add that what the analog stuff is forcing me to do of I find "my" sound. I can't just press a switch and drastically change my preamp tone unless I have another preamp on my board to switch to. Just something to think about with the limitations analog gives you. Makes your solution more elegant.
I've always been all digital. Started with a bfx-708 in highschool. Got a bass pod pro and used that for a long time. Eventually discovered that Zoom was still making newer technology in the same form factor as the 708 and got a B1XON around 2018 followed by a B1X Four in 2020.
I started exploring analog stuff in the last few months. Started with a Sonicake B factory preamp. Then got my first sansamp, a para driver v2 and a Joyo bass compressor.
This all lead me to understand something. The two most important things in your signal chain are a compressor and a preamp. Get a good flexible analog pedal for those two and you can go digital for the rest on just about anything else. My current plan is to use a zoom pedal of some sort for my "effects," put a compressor in front of that and a preamp/di after it.
Edit: just wanted to add that what the analog stuff is forcing me to do of I find "my" sound. I can't just press a switch and drastically change my preamp tone unless I have another preamp on my board to switch to. Just something to think about with the limitations analog gives you. Makes your solution more elegant.
Last edited:
Perhaps I didn't explain the plan enough
The idea is to use something like the spark in additon to the bass rig
The idea came about when I was tired of my cheap guitar pedals draining my bass signal.
SO I ran my tuner out from my bass amp into the guitar amp
On the guitar amp I EQ'd out bass and low mids
All pedals ran through the guitar amp
So I had 100% uncompromised bass signal
Plus the upper EQ range running though a bunch of fx.
It worked great.
Well shoot, that is one hell of an idea. I may try this. Thanks for clarifying!
Don’t forget to budget for a neuro hub and midi pedal to cycle through presets
Yes -- haha -- picky on a budget. That sums it up. I recognize there will be compromises, of course. Just trying to sort out if those compromises should be around sound, functionality, hardware, software, ecosystem, or what.You familiar with the IK Multimedia ToneX stuff?? If it was just me at home with no plans to play out or with others, I wouldn't mind menu diving. Just saying. Seems you're being super picky on a super limited budget. But maybe I just don't get it
I will say this: A long while back, I designed and assembled my own bass. Carvin custom kit, back when they were doing that kind of thing. Is it perfect? No. Is it perfect for me? Yes. Not the best. Not the most cutting edge. But rock-solid with enough options and customized just enough. That 100% cured me of shopping around for yet another new bass to buy, sell, or trade. I guess I'm hoping to pull off the same trick with effects right now.
With regards to menu diving and related, I have a bias towards "my own private Idaho" improv jams with live loops, beats on the fly, and generative elements. I love what I can do with software in this regard, butI too often spend my limited time solving music-production hardware, software, and workflow/integration issues instead of just making music.
Maybe this is some kind of impossible quest. And maybe with more self-discipline I wouldn't have such a love/hate relationship with my laptop rig. Regardless, I think we're getting somewhere with all of this, and I genuinely appreciate everyone's input, insights, questions, and ideas.
Good points. I'm not too worried about portability or necessarily even a tidy setup. But I have an old, giant Pedaltrain in storage with two Voodoo Labs power supplies and cables. It's a beast, bought incredibly cheap at a used bookstore that had no idea what they were selling. Have been thinking of selling it, but perhaps I can put it to good use.
Good point. I have MIDI controllers from my computer-based setup: 3-button Logidy USB footswitch, Keith McMillen Softstep, 16-knob Midi Fighter Twister.) If I go SA or some other route with MIDI integration, I suppose I'll need some kind of a MIDI host. Note to self: Read up on Neuro Hub.
I think, with an option like this, that I would put the GO into the effects loop of my amp or use headphones?
You may be right. Love what I know (and think I know) about EQD. My only concern with this and similar pedals is there doesn't seem to be BPM sync or tap tempo capabilities. I feel a bit spoiled by that functionality from my computer-based work. Then again, I could probably do a lot worse than to rely on my ears, embrace happy accidents, and let the effects drive the tempo sometimes instead of the other way around. Great suggestion. Thanks, @projectapollo!
Have had a couple of Zoom B3s (different versions) and once had a Korg AX300B that, in hindsight, I probably should have held onto given its Les Carpool pedigree haha. Regardless, although I generally liked the sound of the B3s and found them to be inspiring, I got frustrated by the UI (menu diving) and really felt the lack of MIDI/expansion capabilities. Even managed to trash my first B3 with a failed mod to add more footswitches haha.
Screen stuff has been killing me slowly, softly, for a long time, I think. (I also work in tech and fully remote, so I spend more than enough time on screens, all day everyday, to begin with.)
Used multi-FX seems like a good option, of course. I've tried a couple flavors of B3 and used to have a Korg AX300B. MIDI I/O or tap/expression/expansion options and menu/physical UI left me frustrated eventually.
A multi-FX like the Line6 M9 seemed to get a lot right with regards to physical UI. Hmmm ... I wonder how I'd get along with something like the single-effect Line 6 M5 as part of an overall solution?