"Final FX" Confessional: Help me end my GAS and option paralysis once and for all

[misterk73]

-I'll concur that Zoom has a number of inexpensive and very useful products. Very good sounding and dead simple (mostly) to dial in. I own a B3n and the new MS-60B+. The latter I've incorporated into a new board with several analog effects. I've gigged the B3n as a standalone for several years with very good results. Still I want more immediate control over various parameters. The 60B+ sounds great and offers a lot for the price.

-I've previously owned several Source Audio pedals (2 Aftershocks, C4 and Gemini) and the Line 6 HX Stomp/Effects. The HX sounded very good but not 3x better than my Zoom stuff. You'll absolutely need to spend time with software to get value out of those units (although the HX Effects is much easier to navigate from the onboard controls). As for Source Audio, I've never used a more frustrating and less intuitive platform. I could spend 1-2 hours on a computer trying to dial in a useful sound only to save it to the device and find that it doesn't work at all in a band setting, which then requires additional adjustments via phone or computer. It made me uninterested in playing music quite frankly. There's great sounds to be had in there but as a gigging musician, between life and work, I don't have the time or energy to spend fiddling around when I can spend slightly more on a couple of great sounding standalone pedals that I can adjust in seconds.

-With the MS-60B+ (tremendous value given you have amp/cab sims also) and a few other pedals (shop used- there's great deals out there) I have everything I need for my originals and cover bands.

Best of luck to you brother!

Yes, multi-effects I've owned in the past definitely left me wanting "more immediate control over various parameters." That's something at the heart of the problem I'm trying to solve. I like the idea of the Zoom MS- pedals in theory, but I don't think I'd care for them in practice.

Regarding SA, I don't mind spending time up front to learn some software and get things dialed in. But Ive heard you and others express frustration about how frustrating and non-intuitive the Neuro stuff is, Perhaps the new Neuro 3.0 solves some of those issues?

What give me hope about SA is that the One Series all seem to have 6 hardware-accessible presets AND can be put into WYSIWYG mode. So if I can manage to set up a pedal with 6 flexible, custom presets that are designed for WYSIWYG knob control, maybe SA gives me best of all worlds?

Thanks, @Hamrlik!

 

[gregmon79]

Yes, multi-effects I've owned in the past definitely left me wanting "more immediate control over various parameters." That's something at the heart of the problem I'm trying to solve. I like the idea of the Zoom contact pedals in theory, but I don't think I'd care for them in practice.

Regarding SA, I don't mind spending time up front to learn some software and get things dialed in. But Ive heard you and others express frustration about how frustrating and non-intuitive the Neuro stuff is, Perhaps the new Neuro 3.0 solves some of those issues?

What give me hope about SA is that the One Series all seem to have 6 hardware-accessible presets AND can be put into WYSIWYG mode. So if I can manage to set up a pedal with 6 flexible, custom presets that are designed for WYSIWYG knob control, maybe SA gives me best of all worlds?

Thanks, @Hamrlik!

I personally never had much issues with the Neuro app. Only around times where they updated the platform. Which is fine with me. Others tend to use it quite a bit. But for my purposes I never had much issue, I get what you're saying about the zoom stuff too. Great pedals, just tough on the UI. And the dirt offerings as whole never impressed me with the exception of a couple of them in there. But I haven't used any of their stuff in quite a while.

I recently grabbed SA's newest offering, the Artifakt. Seems like an awesome pedal with a ton of functionality. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface on that one. But that is one I'm waiting on SA to work out the bugs in their Editor/app to really dive deeper. I've tried both the WYSIWYG mode as well as MIDI switching implementation. The MIDI was great, having all the presets at the stomp of a switch. But for me, I just prefer the other setting. It's easier for me because I use SA in a "one effect at a time" type way. If I were to use more of their pedals more often and wanted multiple sounds throughout my playing, I'd go the MIDI route.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Screen stuff has been killing me slowly, softly, for a long time, I think. (I also work in tech and fully remote, so I spend more than enough time on screens, all day everyday, to begin with.)

Used multi-FX seems like a good option, of course. I've tried a couple flavors of B3 and used to have a Korg AX300B. MIDI I/O or tap/expression/expansion options and menu/physical UI left me frustrated eventually.

A multi-FX like the Line6 M9 seemed to get a lot right with regards to physical UI. Hmmm ... I wonder how I'd get along with something like the single-effect Line 6 M5 as part of an overall solution?

I loved the M5 but had bad luck with two dying on me. I'm using the HX ONE now and it seems pretty solid.

 

[Rick Penrose]

Screen stuff has been killing me slowly, softly, for a long time, I think. (I also work in tech and fully remote, so I spend more than enough time on screens, all day everyday, to begin with.)

Used multi-FX seems like a good option, of course. I've tried a couple flavors of B3 and used to have a Korg AX300B. MIDI I/O or tap/expression/expansion options and menu/physical UI left me frustrated eventually.

A multi-FX like the Line6 M9 seemed to get a lot right with regards to physical UI. Hmmm ... I wonder how I'd get along with something like the single-effect Line 6 M5 as part of an overall solution?

Just an FYI ...there is no cure for GAS. Been fighting it for years.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

I will preempt this with I have not read any other responses. I'm on somewhat of a similar path at the moment and just sharing my journey.

I've always been all digital. Started with a bfx-708 in highschool. Got a bass pod pro and used that for a long time. Eventually discovered that Zoom was still making newer technology in the same form factor as the 708 and got a B1XON around 2018 followed by a B1X Four in 2020.

I started exploring analog stuff in the last few months. Started with a Sonicake B factory preamp. Then got my first sansamp, a para driver v2 and a Joyo bass compressor.

This all lead me to understand something. The two most important things in your signal chain are a compressor and a preamp. Get a good flexible analog pedal for those two and you can go digital for the rest on just about anything else. My current plan is to use a zoom pedal of some sort for my "effects," put a compressor in front of that and a preamp/di after it.

Edit: just wanted to add that what the analog stuff is forcing me to do of I find "my" sound. I can't just press a switch and drastically change my preamp tone unless I have another preamp on my board to switch to. Just something to think about with the limitations analog gives you. Makes your solution more elegant.

Amen brother.
I was also either no effects or digital multifx - and then a good deal on a colourbox v2 started me down the road of individual pedals … analogue preamp, comp and then there’s a h9 and c4 on the digital side - plus drives and distortions I’ve made myself - because even though I’ve got those options digitally it’s cheap to diy and sounds subjectively better

 

[Wfrance3]

I haven't laid it out the way you did, but having read most of the OP, I think I may have you - This is what I have and here's what I was thinking when I chose what I chose:

This is listed in Left to right pedalboard order -

TUNER (mine's a polytune, but any will do)

SFX THUMPINATOR

[sfx] sfx sound: micro-Thumpinator v2

High performance audio devices

sfxsound.com

Read their description, but essentially it's a little "always-on" pedal that I actually have under my pealboard. It's made to filter the entire spectrum of the frequency your bass can produce, and throw away anything in the low frequency side of the spectrum that is not able to be reproduced. It's great on any bass, but in my opinion essential for a 5 string. - I practice using headphones and find that without one of these, I get ear fatigue. Not sure if you've experienced this before, but for me, I just feel beat up by being bombarded by low freq. with headphones especially. The Thumpinator cleans up the low freq. tone and just makes it feel better to hear.

ZOOM MS60B+
Swiss army knife of pedals. Yes, not as "real" as the actual pedals the Zoom models are made from, but they are fine by my standards and I get a carp-ton of choice items. For me, I really wanted to have a good compressor (there are several), access to a trem pedal, reverb pedal, octave pedal, and low gain fuzz. All present and accounted for...

GENZLER MAGELLAN PREAMP
Ample EQ capablility, You get a mid range with adjustable center freq, You get two different profile curves that you can toggle via footswitch. One profile curve for modern, and one for vintage. - Alos, something that was pretty important to me is having an input volume and a master volume. I have a few different basses and having an adjustable input volume lets me adjust for how "hot" the bass is. There is also an adjustable HPF, that has similar functionality to the first pedal I mentioned, the SFX THUMPINATOR. In my opionon, I need both an extravagance, maybe, but the results are pretty compelling. The Thumpinator is a fixed value pedal, I've read threads where people will make their case for where the HPF should go; the begining of the chain or the beginning. I think having the Thumpinator at the beginning of the chain and the adjustable on-board HPF on the Magellan at the end kinda solves that. Just dial in your basic tone and then let your ears decide how much or little HPF to apply for icing on the cake.

Also worth noting - The Magellan Pre has aux input as well as headphone out. the obvious use for this is silent practice with headphones along with pre-recoded music. The not-so-obvious use for this is that you can use it to fix a bad in-ear mix. I've had in ear mixes where I can't hear myself because of a problem the sound booth can't figure out. If you take whatever mess of an in-ear mix they give you, and put it in the aux in of the Mageallan, you can plug your IEM lead into the headphone out of the Magellan and viola, you can now hear yourself.

All of this fits on a Pedaltrain Nano. I've spent over 10 years coming up with this solution and I don't even want to think of how many $$ trying and selling pedals. FWIW, I still occasionally look at the classifieds here and other places. Mostly out of habit. I look through all the stuff that's there and just say "meh"...

I hope you find value in some of this. Good luck on your journey!

 

[misterk73]

I will preempt this with I have not read any other responses. I'm on somewhat of a similar path at the moment and just sharing my journey.

I've always been all digital. Started with a bfx-708 in highschool. Got a bass pod pro and used that for a long time. Eventually discovered that Zoom was still making newer technology in the same form factor as the 708 and got a B1XON around 2018 followed by a B1X Four in 2020.

I started exploring analog stuff in the last few months. Started with a Sonicake B factory preamp. Then got my first sansamp, a para driver v2 and a Joyo bass compressor.

This all lead me to understand something. The two most important things in your signal chain are a compressor and a preamp. Get a good flexible analog pedal for those two and you can go digital for the rest on just about anything else. My current plan is to use a zoom pedal of some sort for my "effects," put a compressor in front of that and a preamp/di after it.

Edit: just wanted to add that what the analog stuff is forcing me to do of I find "my" sound. I can't just press a switch and drastically change my preamp tone unless I have another preamp on my board to switch to. Just something to think about with the limitations analog gives you. Makes your solution more elegant.

@BassmanNate I missed this earlier in the discussion. Thanks for your perspective on this.

In some ways, I am totally spoiled by what I've learned and been able to do with software and VSTs. My brain has also been sort of rewired to expect and think I NEED certain things -- midi control, parameter modulation, time synchronization seem to be the big three.

BUT you're calling out two things I typically ignore or consider last: compression and preamplification. And re: benefits of analog, I am very interested in finding my sound(s) -- see "I don't care about models and recreations" in my original post.

Just want to make interesting, rhythmic, melodic noise. Not sure I can go back to younger days when an amp and an EH Bass-balls felt like all I'd ever need, though, haha.

I wish I got along better with digital multi-fx pedals, but I've only ever used low-end ones that had acceptable, sometimes quite good, sounds but left me wanting for better controls and more integration possibilities.

I definitely ought to give more consideration to some of the "budget" and clone offerings from brands like Sonicake, Joyo, Mooer, Nux, etc. Hmmm...

 

[misterk73]

I haven't laid it out the way you did, but having read most of the OP, I think I may have you - This is what I have and here's what I was thinking when I chose what I chose:

This is listed in Left to right pedalboard order -

TUNER (mine's a polytune, but any will do)

SFX THUMPINATOR

[sfx] sfx sound: micro-Thumpinator v2

High performance audio devices

sfxsound.com

Read their description, but essentially it's a little "always-on" pedal that I actually have under my pealboard. It's made to filter the entire spectrum of the frequency your bass can produce, and throw away anything in the low frequency side of the spectrum that is not able to be reproduced. It's great on any bass, but in my opinion essential for a 5 string. - I practice using headphones and find that without one of these, I get ear fatigue. Not sure if you've experienced this before, but for me, I just feel beat up by being bombarded by low freq. with headphones especially. The Thumpinator cleans up the low freq. tone and just makes it feel better to hear.

ZOOM MS60B+
Swiss army knife of pedals. Yes, not as "real" as the actual pedals the Zoom models are made from, but they are fine by my standards and I get a carp-ton of choice items. For me, I really wanted to have a good compressor (there are several), access to a trem pedal, reverb pedal, octave pedal, and low gain fuzz. All present and accounted for...

GENZLER MAGELLAN PREAMP
Ample EQ capablility, You get a mid range with adjustable center freq, You get two different profile curves that you can toggle via footswitch. One profile curve for modern, and one for vintage. - Alos, something that was pretty important to me is having an input volume and a master volume. I have a few different basses and having an adjustable input volume lets me adjust for how "hot" the bass is. There is also an adjustable HPF, that has similar functionality to the first pedal I mentioned, the SFX THUMPINATOR. In my opionon, I need both an extravagance, maybe, but the results are pretty compelling. The Thumpinator is a fixed value pedal, I've read threads where people will make their case for where the HPF should go; the begining of the chain or the beginning. I think having the Thumpinator at the beginning of the chain and the adjustable on-board HPF on the Magellan at the end kinda solves that. Just dial in your basic tone and then let your ears decide how much or little HPF to apply for icing on the cake.

Also worth noting - The Magellan Pre has aux input as well as headphone out. the obvious use for this is silent practice with headphones along with pre-recoded music. The not-so-obvious use for this is that you can use it to fix a bad in-ear mix. I've had in ear mixes where I can't hear myself because of a problem the sound booth can't figure out. If you take whatever mess of an in-ear mix they give you, and put it in the aux in of the Mageallan, you can plug your IEM lead into the headphone out of the Magellan and viola, you can now hear yourself.

All of this fits on a Pedaltrain Nano. I've spent over 10 years coming up with this solution and I don't even want to think of how many $$ trying and selling pedals. FWIW, I still occasionally look at the classifieds here and other places. Mostly out of habit. I look through all the stuff that's there and just say "meh"...

I hope you find value in some of this. Good luck on your journey!

Thanks for the breakdown of your solution, @Wfrance3. I like the simplicity of it.

MS60B+ keeps coming up and it's awfully tempting, but ... I think my resistance there is that I'm not wanting to create a bunch of patches to cycle through in a setlist. I'm really looking to plug in and fiddle about / tweak sounds / experiment in real time. I

If the MS60B+ would let me connect a MIDI footswitch to toggle effects on and off? Heck, yes. If I could also use my 16-knob MIDI controller to manipulate parameters in real time? No brainer.

Problem I'm encountering -- one of many, haha -- is those kind of capabilities seem to push me towards options that both cost a lot more AND also give me a bunch of other things I don't really need or want.

It's cyclical problems like this that have also had me, at times, looking into DIY analog and even DSP effects. Could be customized just for me and my sensibilities, but I'm not sure I've got the skill, time, patience, or funds for all that.

Still, your comments and those of @BassmanNate have me thinking about this differently with regards to the end-to-end signal chain, which is good. Maybe I've been focused on the wrong problems.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

I think the best option might be to buy some bits the get going - and add more pedals over time, some of the cheaper brands you’ve mentioned do make very nice things - you just need to be careful in separating what you want and what you need and being laser focused on not letting pedal acquisitions get out of hand

 

[Wfrance3]

I'm not wanting to create a bunch of patches

I get you. I agree with the whole bunch of patches thing, but, I don't worry about having the facility to access a library of patches in case I need something/something comes up. I look at it like the MS60B+ is a music store that doesn't cost me money to get stuff from.
I just create what I need, and honestly so far, 98% of the time I just use the Ross Dyana Compressor model and that's it. I figure if I need something, I can just go to the "store" and get it.
For what I currently do, a clean-ish P-Bass tone is always peachy. If patching up something that would just be a different flavor of good is an option, then, yea... For example, I have a verb-trem that I created for when our Church P&W Team plays "Oceans". I kick it on for the choruses.
I've slowed down a ton, but man something like this would have been handy back in the day. I jut play at my Church, Jam with friends, and play/practice at home. - It's ironic, that back when gear weighed a ton, you were always moving it in and out of places. Not that gear has gotten lighter and you can get a ton of sound out of a lightweight and realatively inexpensive rig moving that rig from place to place is way less of a thing.

 

[misterk73]

I think the best option might be to buy some bits the get going - and add more pedals over time, some of the cheaper brands you’ve mentioned do make very nice things - you just need to be careful in separating what you want and what you need and being laser focused on not letting pedal acquisitions get out of hand

Totally. For all kinds of reasons, I keep coming back to a Source Audio C4 as my first piece in the puzzle. Probably need to just pull the trigger, live with it for a while to see if I jibe with it. Then add some dirt. Then some delay and/or reverb. And then be done with it. Forever. (Yeah, right.)

 

[misterk73]

I get you. I agree with the whole bunch of patches thing, but, I don't worry about having the facility to access a library of patches in case I need something/something comes up. I look at it like the MS60B+ is a music store that doesn't cost me money to get stuff from.
I just create what I need, and honestly so far, 98% of the time I just use the Ross Dyana Compressor model and that's it. I figure if I need something, I can just go to the "store" and get it.
For what I currently do, a clean-ish P-Bass tone is always peachy. If patching up something that would just be a different flavor of good is an option, then, yea... For example, I have a verb-trem that I created for when our Church P&W Team plays "Oceans". I kick it on for the choruses.
I've slowed down a ton, but man something like this would have been handy back in the day. I jut play at my Church, Jam with friends, and play/practice at home. - It's ironic, that back when gear weighed a ton, you were always moving it in and out of places. Not that gear has gotten lighter and you can get a ton of sound out of a lightweight and realatively inexpensive rig moving that rig from place to place is way less of a thing.

Totally. I've got every sound I could possibly want or need waiting for me inside my portable, powerful laptop ... and yet, more often than not, I don't want anything to do with it. And I'm JUST playing at home -- with by and for myself -- these days. Kind of ridiculous, but flow and feel and vibe -- UX and UI -- really do matter. Software's just not cutting it for me these days.

I listened to a couple of albums lately that reminded me about the power of minimalism and constraints: PJ Harvey 4-Track Demos and Paul McCartney's first self-titled solo album. Good stuff, mostly just banging away on a few instruments with few-to-no effects into a multi-track recorder. Brave. Inspiring.

 

[hooky_marr]

To steal a frame from S3E1 of The Bear:

I am also a diagnosed ADHDer.
I will tend to really spiral about not having options or not foreseeing everything that might happen, beyond reason.

I struggle with computer-based recording due to option anxiety and "perfection procrastination."

What I would STRONGLY suggest is (with the aid of a licensed therapist) learn to give up the need to control everything, and just start with what you actually have. Cut things out. Subtract.

If you want to have a good basic pedalboard that will let you focus on playing, I would go all-analog, all-used, and mostly from mainstream brands.

Don't go down the rabbit hole of building spreadsheets of niche pedal features, trying to find some unobtanium.

Also: don't worry about having everything right now.

Based on what you have said, here's my recommendations within your $700 budget.

• Keeley Bassist compressor - about $150 or less used, OR Aguilar TLC compressor v1, about the same.
• Aguilar Octamizer octave pedal - about $100-140 used
• MXR Phase 90 - under $100 used, one knob!
• JPTR FX Double Jive - dual "tape saturator" fuzz with multiple selectable fuzz diode options. $180-ish used.
• MXR Carbon Copy analog delay (about $90 used) OR TC Bucket Brigade (about $50 used)

That should bring you, using the cheapest options, to around $525 (doing a quick shop on Reverb.com, minus shipping costs). You can use the remaining funds for cables (I like the World's Best Cables brand on Amazon, they use Mogami) and a pedal power supply (a TrueTone CS7, under $100 used).

 

[misterk73]

View attachment 7015204

I am also a diagnosed ADHDer.
I will tend to really spiral about not having options or not foreseeing everything that might happen, beyond reason.

I struggle with computer-based recording due to option anxiety and "perfection procrastination."

What I would STRONGLY suggest is (with the aid of a licensed therapist) learn to give up the need to control everything, and just start with what you actually have. Cut things out. Subtract.

If you want to have a good basic pedalboard that will let you focus on playing, I would go all-analog, all-used, and mostly from mainstream brands.

Don't go down the rabbit hole of building spreadsheets of niche pedal features, trying to find some unobtanium.

Also: don't worry about having everything right now.

Based on what you have said, here's my recommendations within your $700 budget.

• Keeley Bassist compressor - about $150 or less used, OR Aguilar TLC compressor v1, about the same.
• Aguilar Octamizer octave pedal - about $100-140 used
• MXR Phase 90 - under $100 used, one knob!
• JPTR FX Double Jive - dual "tape saturator" fuzz with multiple selectable fuzz diode options. $180-ish used.
• MXR Carbon Copy analog delay (about $90 used) OR TC Bucket Brigade (about $50 used)

That should bring you, using the cheapest options, to around $525 (doing a quick shop on Reverb.com, minus shipping costs). You can use the remaining funds for cables (I like the World's Best Cables brand on Amazon, they use Mogami) and a pedal power supply (a TrueTone CS7, under $100 used).

Very much appreciate this perspective, especially with budget constraints and certain ... ahem ... behavioral tendencies. I am definitely not in spreadsheet mode -- my ADHD tends to manifest itself in other ways haha -- but I have spent FAR too much time spinning around all of this instead of playing lately.

I recently had a good "start with what you have" experience, though. Hooked an old iRig interface up to an old iPad and put it in the send/return loop of my amp. Touchscreen scratched the "I just want knobs and switches" tactile itch. Focus on a simple effects chain and leaving all the usual DAW options and functionality behind felt great.

Really appreciate everyone's input and perspectives to date. Helps to have a place to hash out this kind of nonsense from time to time.

 

[Billyears IV]

Screen stuff has been killing me slowly, softly, for a long time, I think. (I also work in tech and fully remote, so I spend more than enough time on screens, all day everyday, to begin with.)

Used multi-FX seems like a good option, of course. I've tried a couple flavors of B3 and used to have a Korg AX300B. MIDI I/O or tap/expression/expansion options and menu/physical UI left me frustrated eventually.

A multi-FX like the Line6 M9 seemed to get a lot right with regards to physical UI. Hmmm ... I wonder how I'd get along with something like the single-effect Line 6 M5 as part of an overall solution?

Understanding your motivation to move away from screen fatigue.
However, where do you intend to be with recording & therefore a DAW?

Reason I ask is, yes it's good to be able to tweak fx stuff hands on with no pc, but.... If you intend to be recording for practice/fun/more serious reasons, then when considering your pedal fx options, they will have some significance with recording/editing, to get the best out of the fx pedals sound. ie you get a great sounding pedal in the room, but it's 'essence' doesn't translate well into recording.
You are then facing recording techniques /mics/gear to get the best out of your pedals. Plus using enhancements within the DAW.

I've been working hard over last 3 years with SA C4 & UW. Incredible range of possible sounds and features. Mind blowing fun, alone in the room with my rig.

Taking that into band rehearsal /performance and quite a bit gets lost in the mix. Reassess & adjust presets accordingly. Then don't sound the same as at home, to an audience of yours truly.

Taking my beloved presets into recording is another challenge/disappointment. Some work well, others not, some magic is lost. Became battle with post eq - ing and hit/miss DAW tweaking. Sometimes easier to create a synth sound in Ableton, than persist with Bass guitar & C4.

I have more recently turned a bit of a circle with SA pedals. Far fewer patches only doing fundamental things but doing them better, as my knowledge /skill levels are more focused.

My main thing I focus on is getting the best tones I can with fingers, bass & amp. Then....and only then.... Adding a bit of fx 'sauce'..... if necessary to the band mix, recording.
Rather than, when I started out messing with fx, it was all about the wacky sound.

I now combine my digital SA pedals with some analogue ones. Happier place as a result, with both live & recording use. Only occasionally use screen for adjustment on some SA patches.

The midi controller Morningstar MC6 pro is a great piece of kit, taking care of navigating & combining presets from both SA pedals.

Sorry for personal ramble but hope it gives some perspective to what you want to get out of going for pedals vs daw plug ins.

Go grab a C4 and have fun. Incredible synth pedal. But needs screen time with Neuro software to adjust. If producing recording sounds with daw has been your big buzz or 'showcase', then accept there are hurdles to record the C4 fx in optimum ways.....

 

[lomo]

Plenty of good suggestions above. It seems to me that getting into an analog pedal setup isn't easy on a restricted budget, unless you're patient and committed. I personally detest nested digital menus. I want to look at a pedal and see where it's set and be able to modify/ adjust in a moment. The alternatives are cheaper, more versatile but far less convenient and a major time suck. A few possibly helpful points:
-if you're only at home you can save by not mounting them to a board right away (or possibly ever), or making a board out of something cheap, like a cutting board....this is easy if you accept that dropping $$$ on a swanky power supply is not necessary. I have 3 boards.....1 uses a CIOKS SOL under one (I sold my CIOKS 7) and the other 2 use 1-spot daisy chains. I have a number of high current tube pedals and have never had any issues with noise, ever. Using a daisy chain means you don't need much (or any) room underneath the board.
-In terms of modulation, there are a number of multi-mod pedals out there. Almost all use the same chip implemented in similar ways. I don't think you'll lose anything in terms of tone by opting for one of those over a single function phaser....they pretty much all have freq/depth controls and most have another feedback or similar knob.
-although there's no shortage of btq pedals, most of what most of them offer can be had in mid-range quality stuff (like MXR) that's available MUCH cheaper used. If you hear with your ears and not your eyes, your wallet will thank you.
-try to plan ahead exactly what FX you want.....experimentation will sublimate your budget in a picosecond.
-used is the way, as much as possible

 

[misterk73]

Understanding your motivation to move away from screen fatigue.
However, where do you intend to be with recording & therefore a DAW?

Reason I ask is, yes it's good to be able to tweak fx stuff hands on with no pc, but.... If you intend to be recording for practice/fun/more serious reasons, then when considering your pedal fx options, they will have some significance with recording/editing, to get the best out of the fx pedals sound. ie you get a great sounding pedal in the room, but it's 'essence' doesn't translate well into recording.
You are then facing recording techniques /mics/gear to get the best out of your pedals. Plus using enhancements within the DAW.

I've been working hard over last 3 years with SA C4 & UW. Incredible range of possible sounds and features. Mind blowing fun, alone in the room with my rig.

Taking that into band rehearsal /performance and quite a bit gets lost in the mix. Reassess & adjust presets accordingly. Then don't sound the same as at home, to an audience of yours truly.

Taking my beloved presets into recording is another challenge/disappointment. Some work well, others not, some magic is lost. Became battle with post eq - ing and hit/miss DAW tweaking. Sometimes easier to create a synth sound in Ableton, than persist with Bass guitar & C4.

I have more recently turned a bit of a circle with SA pedals. Far fewer patches only doing fundamental things but doing them better, as my knowledge /skill levels are more focused.

My main thing I focus on is getting the best tones I can with fingers, bass & amp. Then....and only then.... Adding a bit of fx 'sauce'..... if necessary to the band mix, recording.
Rather than, when I started out messing with fx, it was all about the wacky sound.

I now combine my digital SA pedals with some analogue ones. Happier place as a result, with both live & recording use. Only occasionally use screen for adjustment on some SA patches.

The midi controller Morningstar MC6 pro is a great piece of kit, taking care of navigating & combining presets from both SA pedals.

Sorry for personal ramble but hope it gives some perspective to what you want to get out of going for pedals vs daw plug ins.

Go grab a C4 and have fun. Incredible synth pedal. But needs screen time with Neuro software to adjust. If producing recording sounds with daw has been your big buzz or 'showcase', then accept there are hurdles to record the C4 fx in optimum ways.....

@Billyears IV, thanks for this. I’m generally not too worried about portability of sound to different playing situations these days. Not really looking to play with others, although I’m open to it. As far as recording goes, I mostly play for purely creative reasons and improv fun. I do hear you on the “just go grab a C4 and have fun.” It’s a great option I keep coming back to. Cheers!

 

[misterk73]

Plenty of good suggestions above. It seems to me that getting into an analog pedal setup isn't easy on a restricted budget, unless you're patient and committed. I personally detest nested digital menus. I want to look at a pedal and see where it's set and be able to modify/ adjust in a moment. The alternatives are cheaper, more versatile but far less convenient and a major time suck. A few possibly helpful points:
-if you're only at home you can save by not mounting them to a board right away (or possibly ever), or making a board out of something cheap, like a cutting board....this is easy if you accept that dropping $$$ on a swanky power supply is not necessary. I have 3 boards.....1 uses a CIOKS SOL under one (I sold my CIOKS 7) and the other 2 use 1-spot daisy chains. I have a number of high current tube pedals and have never had any issues with noise, ever. Using a daisy chain means you don't need much (or any) room underneath the board.
-In terms of modulation, there are a number of multi-mod pedals out there. Almost all use the same chip implemented in similar ways. I don't think you'll lose anything in terms of tone by opting for one of those over a single function phaser....they pretty much all have freq/depth controls and most have another feedback or similar knob.
-although there's no shortage of btq pedals, most of what most of them offer can be had in mid-range quality stuff (like MXR) that's available MUCH cheaper used. If you hear with your ears and not your eyes, your wallet will thank you.
-try to plan ahead exactly what FX you want.....experimentation will sublimate your budget in a picosecond.
-used is the way, as much as possible

Hey, @lomo, thanks. Good suggestions all around, though I’m realizing I may not have the patience or the funds to go all analog. Plus, a good chunk of my budget is tied up in store credit, so I may not be able to focus on used as much as I could or should. Regardless, I know I’m most drawn to filter, dirt, phaser, and time-synced ambiance. If only I didn’t also want envelope follower, CV/expression modulation, and comprehensive MIDi capabilities, too, haha. I will say those desires —plus my desire to avoid screens and software in this — has had me considering things like open-source DSP, modular/eurorack, and an Empress ZOIA lately. ZOIA, in particular, could be an interesting sweet spot in all of this — lots baked in, UI that makes sense to me in theory, constraints that seem like they might be good for creativity, etc.

 

[misterk73]

Hi, all. Just wanted to provide an update in case anyone might benefit from the journey or has ideas to share.

I now have about $550 socked away, and I am holding off on purchases. Trying to focus on playing and writing instead of worrying too much about sound design and production concerns. Tough adjustment -- it's been a while haha -- but very good for me to focus on the raw sounds of music instead of hyper-focusing on how the music sounds, if that makes sense.

I did decide to make one purchase: a Raspberry Pi 5. This has enabled me to take a first-hand look at things like Neural Amp Modeler, Zynthian, and Patchbox (which includes a nice implementation of the open-source MOD Devices virtual pedalboard). Pretty interesting. Quality stuff. Hasn't been nearly as annoying or frustrating as my laptop/DAW setup, and the RPi is definitely something I will find continued use for.

Still, the RPi alone is clearly NOT going to be my all-in-one "final effects" solution for plug-n-play fun and inspiration. However, it did help me to 1) learn more about and correct some of my misconceptions about amp modeling and IRs, and 2) validate that I have a decent foundational understanding of audio effects (DSP and otherwise), modular synths, and MIDI.

SO, what's next? Recent product releases and announcements from Neural DSP, Kemper, and IK Multimedia have caught my attention. (Also things like Dimehead's NAM Player and my discovery of Two Volts.) Of them, all, I'm surprised to find myself considering IK Multimedia TONEX after learning of a November update that's supposed to add modulation and time-based effects AND enhance real-time editing capabilities.

Assuming this update lives up to its promise, could TONEX be it for me? I'm not sure, at this point, that I can do better at its PRICE point (~$400). Would leave me with the budget to add a utility pedal, probably to be used with my Bass Whammy at the front of the chain. Lean on TONEX for the rest. Use existing MIDI controllers for outboard knob and footswitch controls.

Have I arrived? Please talk me into or out of this haha. THANKS!

 

[misterk73]

You familiar with the IK Multimedia ToneX stuff?? If it was just me at home with no plans to play out or with others, I wouldn't mind menu diving. Just saying. Seems you're being super picky on a super limited budget. But maybe I just don't get it

Not familiar, but now actively looking into it after recent announcements about coming-soon effects options and enhance real-time editing capabilities. TONEX seems like a pretty capable pedal. Could be the ticket?