Friends, Luthiers, lend me your eyes (pickguard & PU design)

cdlynch

cdlynch

Nov 11, 2009
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Boston's Glorious South Shore
www.choochoolarouge.com
#1
I'm not a Luthier so I don't know if I'm allowed to play here. If this belongs somewhere else I will accept moderator judgement, but I would love to hear Luthiers' reactions to my mockups.

I've had this '72 Gibson SB-350 for a very long time, and it was unplayable at first. The 2 point bridge was uselessly hunched over, and the single coil pickups were pretty sad, and barely read the E string. So I got the Hipshot replacement, Hipshot ultralight tuners, and took it to a respected luthier for new pickups. To keep the price down he went with used stuff on hand, which looks like 5-string Dual Rails. Here endeth the vintage value. Throughout, please excuse my bad photography:

SB_Ric_01.jpg

I've gigged and recorded with it plenty, but the sound isn't that great. The neck pickup is closer to the neck than a standard P, and I'd like some more bite, and figured why not go past P territory into Ric 4001/3 bridge with the placement, which happens to fit between the existing pickups. My search led me to Lindy Fralin, and he thought his Split Blade Strat model with adjusted radius would be a good fit. These need to be mounted to a pickguard I don't have, so the minimum upgrade option is this (all mockups are to scale):

SB_Ric_02.jpg

Looks gross, so here we go into dreamland! I couldn't find any EB basses that came stock with a full pickguard, so I started by seeing what the full SG guard looked like:

SB_Ric_03.jpg

It'd have to be stretched to cover the new PU, and rather than cut a hole for a neck PU I don't like, why not add a 4001/3 neck position PU as well? I looked around for guard inspiration and found these:

bass-ref-1.JPGbass-ref-2.JPG

which, combined with the SG full guard led me to this:

SB_Ric_04.jpg

Well heck, if I'm going to keep a J-ish bridge PU in the mix, why stop there, and meanwhile, cover all the older routing holes?

SB_Ric_05.jpg

I have one of the Fralins, so I'd need a 2nd bridge model and a neck, plus a custom pickguard (I've seen nice comments about Pickguardian). The PU locations are all under octave harmonics, starting with the Ric placements. For electronics I like the SB on-off switches, so I'd keep that and do master tone and volume as before, but probably move the jack to the body edge, off the guard.

Thanks for reading and looking! Any reactions?
 
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#2
cdlynch said:
I'm not a Luthier so I don't know if I'm allowed to play here. If this belongs somewhere else I will accept moderator judgement, but I would love to hear Luthiers' reactions to my mockups.

I've had this '72 Gibson SB-350 for a very long time, and it was unplayable at first. The 2 point bridge was uselessly hunched over, and the single coil pickups were pretty sad, and barely read the E string. So I got the Hipshot replacement, Hipshot ultralight tuners, and took it to a respected luthier for new pickups. To keep the price down he went with used stuff on hand, which looks like 5-string Dual Rails. Here endeth the vintage value. Throughout, please excuse my bad photography:

View attachment 908299

I've gigged and recorded with it plenty, but the sound isn't that great. The neck pickup is closer to the neck than a standard P, and I'd like some more bite, and figured why not go past P territory into Ric 4001/3 bridge with the placement, which happens to fit between the existing pickups. My search led me to Lindy Fralin, and he thought his Split Blade Strat model with adjusted radius would be a good fit. These need to be mounted to a pickguard I don't have, so the minimum upgrade option is this (all mockups are to scale):

View attachment 908300

Looks gross, so here we go into dreamland! I couldn't find any EB basses that came stock with a full pickguard, so I started by seeing what the full SG guard looked like:

View attachment 908312

It'd have to be stretched to cover the new PU, and rather than cut a hole for a neck PU I don't like, why not add a 4001/3 neck position PU as well? I looked around for guard inspiration and found these:

View attachment 908323View attachment 908324

which, combined with the SG full guard led me to this:

View attachment 908329

Well heck, if I'm going to keep a J-ish PU in the mix, why stop there, and meanwhile, cover all the older routing holes?

View attachment 908346

I have one of the Fralins, so I'd need a 2nd bridge model and a neck, plus a custom pickguard (I've seen nice comments about Pickguardian). The PU locations are all under octave harmonics, starting with the Ric placements. For electronics I like the SB on-off switches, so I'd keep that and do master tone and volume as before, but probably move the jack to the body edge, off the guard.

Thanks for reading and looking! Any reactions?
Click to expand...
That looks good to me, I like the pickup placement if the last one and the full coverage pickgaurd. Maybe extend the upper horn area of the pickgaurd up into the upper horn more though.
 
#7
cdlynch said:
Yeah, the left side pointing left is nice. It's really just a matter of trying to look more like Gibson or Hagstrom. Frankly, a tough call!
Click to expand...

More like (the goal being) unifying the two designs (body shape/contours with pg shape/outline) into a harmonious blend/cohabitation… with flare of course! ;)
 
#9
@JIO - Here's full-on Hagstrom:

SB_Ric_07.jpg

The left-most point isn't as tight to the edge as I feared, as I'm constrained by the existing control cavity. I love the Hagstrom style and I don't believe in the sacrilege of cross brand confusion, especially where the pickup configuration is largely Ric. Even for a Gibson it was an odd-ball budget model, and the SB line was the first to use no mahogony and a maple neck, so maybe chucking it in the blender is the right way to go!

The benefits I see to the 3 PU SG flavor are more exposed wood, and better brand match, which I'm not sure I care about, so mostly the wood thing. I'll keep staring at 'em.

Thanks for all the feedback!
 
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#10
cdlynch said:
@JIO - Here's full-on Hagstrom:

View attachment 909351

The left-most point isn't as tight to the edge as I feared, as I'm constrained by the existing control cavity. I love the Hagstrom style and I don't believe in the sacrilege of cross brand confusion, especially where the pickup configuration is largely Ric. Even for a Gibson it was an odd-ball budget model, and the SB line was the first to use no mahogony and a maple neck, so maybe chucking it in the blender is the right way to go!

The benefits I see to the 3 PU SG flavor are more exposed wood, and better brand match, which I'm not sure I care about, so mostly the wood thing. I'll keep staring at 'em.

Thanks for all the feedback!
Click to expand...

Looks good :thumbsup:
 
#12
I did a couple more iterations on the guard and got it done at pickguardian.com, and now the whole mess is with a luthier for routing and electronics work. Here's my custom schematic, which might get more revisions before finishing:

full?lightbox=1&last_edit_date=1476314524.jpg


Options:

* any pickup combination
* either or both bridge pickups can be sent to 2nd output on the fly
* 2nd output has switchable HPF like Ric 4003 "vintage switch"
* no load switch for volume (dual gang pot)
* tone switch: no load, min, and max settings

I don't like variable tone knobs. So sue me. :)

This whole thing is an exercise in OCD, idiocy, and excess. I hope it doesn't upset anyone, 'cause it's making me very happy!
 
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#13
It's not technically a no load circuit because I added a 5M resistor per output to protect against hum when all pickups are off. I could leave them out and just switch the volume in, but the resistors are a safety net, and shouldn't interact much unless I screwed up something. Thanks to @line6man for helping me with that, and tone circuit help, for a potential other build in this thread.
 
#14
That looks super cool, and I bet it'll sound groovy, too! Excited to see how this turns out. As for skipping the variable tone knobs, that's sort of what I've got going on my Hofner--I have five different caps that can be switched in (three on the neck and two on the bridge pickup), and it works great. With three pickups, you'll have loads of options!
 
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#16
reverendrally said:
I'd evenly space them though.
Click to expand...

The neck and middle positions are specific to Rickenbacker 4001/4003, so it stays as-is! However, I haven't ruled out the possibility of a future mod to make the middle pickup variable like some Gibson Grabbers, then I could get various P locations as well. I just need to figure out a non-ugly way to do it! It'll take some serious engineering, if it's even possible in this layout.

EDIT: I couldn't get your link to work at first, but that's a nice sounding bass!
 
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#17
Minor update: The luthier I left this with was booked far ahead of me even before the holidays, and the more I thought about it, the more I got the itch to snort sawdust and do it myself. In the meantime he's helped me get clarity on this project and my Teisco w/ SX neck project as well. I picked it up today, and I'm buying some bits and putting my template hat on, so we'll see how bloody I can get with this thing.
 
#18
Nekkid:
nekkid.jpg

PG located:
nuPG.jpg

I refined the upper horn and entire left side of the PG before I sent it to Pickguardian.com, and they aced it. I'm super happy with the guard! Thanks to everyone who gave feedback; it'd be lame as hell without your input!

@Will_White @JIO @RBS_Johnson @Gilmourisgod :D

I have marked all PG holes with an awl EXACTLY in the hole centers. The next step terrifies me. Whether I drill pilot holes by hand or with a drill press, the bit wanders. Anyone have a foolproof drilling method? I'll die if my holes are off and I buckle this PG...

After that, electronics mockup on clear plexi and PU routing...
 
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#19
My schematic is going on a diet! The 4PDT dual volume bypass switch would be too much for the control cavity, and I'm not putting in volume without a kill switch, so I'll chuck it all. Three PU switches, and two tone switches. If I need to fade out I'll roll my palm over the bridge. Actually, that's what I do anyway. With the old design I was going to put the jack out the side, but now I can put it on the guard, so the only physical connection to the instrument will be the ground wire to the bridge. I think this'll be my layout:

switches.jpg
 
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