Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!

#21
fingers said:
...The biggest fun I'm having is I'm finding these strings match my style well. I'm not a flashy player and subscribe to the 'low and groovin' school of bass line construction. Even solo-wise I tend towards lines that are rhythmically and harmonically interesting but not necessarily fast....I figure if I'm not insane by the end of the weekend I'm a gut-man for life...
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fingers said:
...Lots of mixed meter funk and slamming latin. Prolly the weak point of gut. Later in the week I have ratpack **** and a Rosemary Clooney show Fri and Sat. I'm betting gut will be perfect for those.
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They're a no brainer for the old school jazz and standards but I think gut strings kill for old school funk and Latin. Once you really get a feel for the right hand they are every bit as articulate as steel strings and in some ways more expressive.
In my opinion the only way they don't compete is straight up speed... but then you're into slab mode and I'm just not interested anymore. ;)
-J
 
#22
progris riport: Last night was the first gig. It was 'concert' type gig at the Jazz Showcase in Chicago. It took me a couple songs to settle in. The first song we did was and arrangement of Stompin at the Savoy. Pretty cool, tripped up a couple times going for stuff. Then came the real test. The second song is a 6/8 - 9/8 funk called Amalgasantos by the Brazilian composer Ed Motta. This one I had a hard time with at first because it is pretty loud and energetic. I'd always been used to transferring that energy to the strings. Can't do that with gut. Kind of a good lesson though. Some of that 'excitement' gets chalked up to wasted energy by the end of the night. Once I got the hang of it though and settled in everything was great. As predicted the swing was glorious, that punch in the gut sound, and the funk took some getting used to.

Soloing was hard. On mid-up tempo stuff the KISS thing had to apply. The first solo I took I choked a bit because I went for something and got tangled. I liked that challenge though because I really had to think rather than just wiggle. Playing phrases horizontally was harder too. Soloing on ballad was harder. I'm used to steels singing and guts, or at least these, don't. Or at least not as much. Solo phrases that depended on a really legato sustain felt strange.

Now the interesting part. After the first set I was making the rounds and one woman, who frequents our shows, asked me if I was doing something different. I told her. She said she really liked how 'forceful' the sound was. Always fun to hear non-musicians talk music.

Tonight, Rat Pack.

end progris report
 
#24
progris report:

Last night I had a piano/bass/voice gig. Basically wallpaper at a steak restaurant. As suspected, walking was great. I felt like I could put a bounce in the swing that I couldn't before. I did notice the tension difference between the Evahs and guts more than I had before. Something I have gotten used to but would occasionally catch me off guard.

I solo on almost every tune and that still proves to be a challenge. I think prolly a combination of the gut difference and those Hall Galpern videos scrambling my noodle solos are not up to my standards. I told that to the piano player. He couldn't tell. I could. I like this feeling though because it usually means a breakthrough is just around the corner.

The tonal differences is my favorite part. The piano player voices things pretty dense and I felt like that gut sound was standing out more. Hard to explain if you don't play guts but it just felt like it had more of its own sonic space.

Today I have two private gigs. The first is with a drummer that tends to get a little excited (LOVE his playing but he can get a little loud in those settings) and is in a pretty big room. I know I have to just play to the strengths of gut and not try to muscle my sound. Hard in those conditions. The second is a piano, bass, voice thing. Sure I'll have much the same experience as last night.

Tomorrow and Sat is in a 1000 seat theatre on stage through a nice house sound system. Looking very forward to that.

end progris report.
 
#26
For sure. I've also been trying to internalize several concepts from those videos. 1. Having an idea BEFORE you play it. 2. Thinking of the rhythm before the note 3. Not playing everything your hear in your head. That, in combination with the physical limitations of the gut switch, has me a little handcuffed right now. I think the end result will be deeper solo ideas.
 
#28
After a lightning round of string swapping, the winners are the Spiros. The diameter difference between D and A is made up in the nice tension balance, and since that's my priority right now, I'm gonna stick. First runnerup, Zyex, with Honeys coming in third. The Gamuts are as good as I remember, with varnish being an improvement. G sings right away, D is gonna take a while to open up and dethump.
 
#30
My Gamut Lyon plain D used to bug me, but I've pretty much mastered it at this point (which means I sound and play no worse than I would otherwise) and I'm pretty much sold on gut for my current bass.

My new adventure is the Pistoy plain A (!!!) that should be delivered any day now. Wish me luck, I need it.
 
#31
Yeah, Phil, I know what you mean, but my last Gamut D got to be real good, especially for the music I play uprite on these days. I mainly do oldish jazz and Western Swing/Honkytonk. If I want a more modern sound, my Merchant VBass w/ Obligatos (I know-heresy) does quite nicely and everybody seems to like it. Lotsa sustain, fat sound, and less electric-sounding than a lot of amped uprites I hear around town. I don't bring an amp for the big bass unless I get a ride or the gig pays enough to cover transpo.
 
#32
Progris report:

Gig one today down. Played mic only (AT pro35) into my AI Clarus and little Yamaha PA cab. The sound was glorious. Even when the drummer got loud the guts just sit in 'that spot' and there was no need to get loud.

I can see what people are saying about the D strings. This one is opening up but very slowly. There are certain notes that are just dead. I did have a little trouble cutting during solos. It was a banquet so it got pretty noisy ad people drank. Getting used to the touch for solos though.

Tuning has been a battle.



End progris report
 
#33
fingers said:
progris report:

Last night I had a piano/bass/voice gig. Basically wallpaper at a steak restaurant. As suspected, walking was great. I felt like I could put a bounce in the swing that I couldn't before. I did notice the tension difference between the Evahs and guts more than I had before. Something I have gotten used to but would occasionally catch me off guard.

I solo on almost every tune and that still proves to be a challenge. I think prolly a combination of the gut difference and those Hall Galpern videos scrambling my noodle solos are not up to my standards. I told that to the piano player. He couldn't tell. I could. I like this feeling though because it usually means a breakthrough is just around the corner.

The tonal differences is my favorite part. The piano player voices things pretty dense and I felt like that gut sound was standing out more. Hard to explain if you don't play guts but it just felt like it had more of its own sonic space.

Today I have two private gigs. The first is with a drummer that tends to get a little excited (LOVE his playing but he can get a little loud in those settings) and is in a pretty big room. I know I have to just play to the strengths of gut and not try to muscle my sound. Hard in those conditions. The second is a piano, bass, voice thing. Sure I'll have much the same experience as last night.

Tomorrow and Sat is in a 1000 seat theatre on stage through a nice house sound system. Looking very forward to that.

end progris report.
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Loud drummers aren't a problem if you're still playing some form of swing music. The guts live in their own sonic space below the drums. He can pound all he wants and you're still going to be heard just fine under him. It's actually better than with steels where the strong midrange frequencies compete with some of the drums' frequencies and you have to muscle your way through the sonic space to be heard.

You just need to get used to guts for soloing. It's a different voice and you have to come up with stuff that fits the voice. Plus you're still trying to figure out the touch. Once you get used to them, you'll get much more fluid. I've talked about this before. There is a transition period where your familiar licks and tricks (and we all have them) that work great on steel strings, don't work so well on gut and you haven't developed your gut licks and tricks yet. Soldier through this period and you'll start playing the gut voice and all will be well with the world.

The tension difference was a big problem for me. Luckily, there are a number of options that don't include wrapped gut: Garbos, Animas, Super Silvers all have their fans out here in Gutville. I've used both Garbos and Animas and love both of them. The Garbos were a little more gut-like. The Animas have a little more growl to them without sounding like Spiros. The tension on both are complementary to the plain gut D and G. Nothing sounds like wrapped gut (i.e glorious) but I gave up on them. Gigging in the Winter was just too much work. I like my C on the A string to be in the same place every time I go for it on a gig.

I have a very well worn set of Garbos (E/A) you can try. They've got a lot of miles on them but you'll get the sense of the tension and an idea of the sound. They won't be as powerful as new ones though. Let me know.

mark
 
#34
fingers said:
Progris report:

Gig one today down. Played mic only (AT pro35) into my AI Clarus and little Yamaha PA cab. The sound was glorious. Even when the drummer got loud the guts just sit in 'that spot' and there was no need to get loud.

I can see what people are saying about the D strings. This one is opening up but very slowly. There are certain notes that are just dead. I did have a little trouble cutting during solos. It was a banquet so it got pretty noisy ad people drank. Getting used to the touch for solos though.

Tuning has been a battle.

End progris report
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Tuning will ease off soon. They take a week or more to fully stretch out. Once they're stretched out, they'll stay relatively stable. Not Spiro stable but you won't be tuning between tunes. I plug a tuner in to the "effects out" of my AI and just keep it on during the gig. Between tunes, I'll occasionally hit the D or G and check 'em out.

mark
 
#35
The Pistoy A was waiting for me when I came home. Man, even in the "light" gauge this thing is like novelty huge. A work of art, for sure. I'd love to try it out now, but somethings telling me tomorrow's gig would be rough with a fresh plain gut A. I have a gig lull coming up next week, so I'll slap it on and report back.
 
#36
Uncletoad said:
Plain gut D strings piss me off at least once a night.
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The Gamut Pistoy gut D I have on now is the best I've had. It cost a bazillion dollars though, and still there are spots where the notes choke. I've pretty much concluded that it's the nature of the beast, but on the good notes it sounds great ;)
Right now I'm good up to at least a Bb, then it gets dodgy for a few notes -- B, C, C#, then it comes back. It's not the string, it's the bass. A steel string will do the same thing, only to a much lesser extent. Gut just exaggerates these problem spots on a bass.

The best gut D substitute I can recommend is a Velvet Garbo.
A plain gut G, Garbo D and "name-your-poison" A&E makes a good combo. But nothing is really like plain gut. And IMO, wound gut like Olive and Eudoxa has a whole different sound, and match up less well than a Garbo.
 
#37
Bobby King said:
The Gamut Pistoy gut D I have on now is the best I've had. It cost a bazillion dollars though, and still there are spots where the notes choke. I've pretty much concluded that it's the nature of the beast, but on the good notes it sounds great ;)
Right now I'm good up to at least a Bb, then it gets dodgy for a few notes -- B, C, C#, then it comes back. It's not the string, it's the bass. A steel string will do the same thing, only to a much lesser extent. Gut just exaggerates these problem spots on a bass.

The best gut D substitute I can recommend is a Velvet Garbo.
A plain gut G, Garbo D and "name-your-poison" A&E makes a good combo. But nothing is really like plain gut. And IMO, wound gut like Olive and Eudoxa has a whole different sound, and match up less well than a Garbo.
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I agree. I tried a Garbo light D and it was remarkably similar to gut with a bit more focus than gut but a little bit less body. Ultimately, I went back to the Gamut Pistoy. The Garbo is my solid second choice though.

mark
 
#38
Hi all
I have a Gamut Lyon heavy+G and Pistoy heavy+D due in this weekend. I got a heavy+ Lyon G and D from Phil awhile back and loved them but they were used and Im interested to see how new ones sound. Light guts are a little weak, in my opinion. Will report. John
 
#39
olivieraleman said:
Heavy D due in this weekend.
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Look Out!

heavyD.gif
 
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