Ah, but this is the rub. The Mingus /Chambers sound is the one I like on recordings but the one in my head when I'm playing is more like the Drew Gress sound.
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Double Bass GUTS ARE SO MUCH FUN!!!
- Thread starter Marc Piane
- Start date
Ah, but this is the rub. The Mingus /Chambers sound is the one I like on recordings but the one in my head when I'm playing is more like the Drew Gress sound.
Bobby King
Supporting Member
Me too, with a pinch of Ray, and a pinch of Scott Colley, and a pinch of McBride, and a pinch of Avishai....
I still have Animas on E&A and Olives on D&G.
The Gamut plain gut Lyon G and Pistoy D are on hiatus.
One thing I grappled with when using the Plain guts is that I couldn't seem to draw out anything resembling a pleasing sound when playing Arco.
However, I loved the fat, bloomy, effect of the strings, especially for Hard Bop.
In the meantime, the Olives seem to give me a bit more percussive attack for more modern repertoire. However, the D string pulls horribly out of tune on a consistent basis.
I foresee the Gamuts going back on for another experiment sometime within the coming months.
(In the meantime, I might try an Anima D with the Olive on top to see if it improves matters at all.)
The Gamut plain gut Lyon G and Pistoy D are on hiatus.
One thing I grappled with when using the Plain guts is that I couldn't seem to draw out anything resembling a pleasing sound when playing Arco.
However, I loved the fat, bloomy, effect of the strings, especially for Hard Bop.
In the meantime, the Olives seem to give me a bit more percussive attack for more modern repertoire. However, the D string pulls horribly out of tune on a consistent basis.
I foresee the Gamuts going back on for another experiment sometime within the coming months.
(In the meantime, I might try an Anima D with the Olive on top to see if it improves matters at all.)
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Mine doesn't do that. Might be a bad string or perhaps it needs more tension around it than the Animas. I had to bring the string height up a touch to tighten that D string up. Worked good.
Guts probably aren't for you. You won't get anything even approaching a Drew sound with guts. You really can't. The character is just too different.
Ben Wolfe went to guts because he wanted to get a Paul Chambers-type of sound. I went because I wanted to get a bit of Scott LaFaro's sound. If you are going for a Drew Gress sound or Dave Holland sound or something like that, you just won't get it with gut strings.
It was a worthy experiment.
mark
Marc, i don't want to presume to give you advice, but i would offer this: it seems you didn't complete the experiment and make guts your whole medium. until you try a full set of guts (or something close enough) it's a schizoid kind of mix to some extent. the EPs on E and A would sound too different imo. some have found non-gut substitutes like Velvets work in a rough climate for guts like Chicago. if you have a humidified room you might want to try a full set of guts sometime when you feel inspired again, just to get the gut feel under your fingers... pm sent.
I also find that it takes a good amount of time for the bass to adjust to a string change specially a switch from steels to guts, and vice versa. I had to play my bass for a good two months before it settled in to the guts that I now use
That very well may be it. Your advice is more than welcome. I'm treading on new ground for me here. I know there are some players that do the high tension steels with guts like Charlie Haden. I think Ben Street was doing that for a while too. I just caught Ben Allison when I was last in NYC and he uses Spiros on the bottom with Velvets on top. I was hoping I'd be one of the guys that could get that to work.
I don't mind the sound differences in mixing plain gut with steel, but I find arco to be very tricky in terms of crossing from one type of string to the other. The plain gut D has been too chunkythuddy for me in thumb position, too.
Marc, your eudoxa experience probably soured you on trying wrapped guts with plain, although Mark Sonksen seems to like them. I have a set that I've avoided trying as I don't want to deal with the tuning issues in our lovely climate.
Marc, your eudoxa experience probably soured you on trying wrapped guts with plain, although Mark Sonksen seems to like them. I have a set that I've avoided trying as I don't want to deal with the tuning issues in our lovely climate.
Agreed on the arco thing. I'm using the Evah regulars too, which by many accounts are pretty tense. Maybe somewhere down the road I'll try them with either wrapped gut or Animas or Garbos. The experiment is not over. Just suspended until this very busy Dec is over. In the mean time the guts will live on my backup.
So I'm ready to take the plunge on a G and D. I feel somewhat crazy as I've been quite happy with a fresh set of Animas for each of the last two years. But it's string time again, and for the price of another set of the same I can get a boutique gut G and D to pair with my still-kicking A and E. And as nice as Animas are, they're not quite the real thing...
From my readings here it seems that many folks prefer a medium-ish G and slightly lighter D. I've been in touch with Damian Dlugolecki and he's recommended corresponding gauges. But I'm wondering if I would be better off going heavier, which is why I'm turning to you all for advice. It seems the concern is that the D can get 'thunky', which I'm willing to deal with up to a point. I'm hoping to get a sound with impact and sustain (not steel sustain, gut sustain). I'd also like the strings to stand up to my right hand. For what it's worth, I like the way the Animas respond, but they don't quite have that real gut punch. And I've always enjoyed playing on plain guts whenever I've had a chance to sit in...
Can anyone speak to the practical consequences of lighter or heavier guts? I've used a number of gut-core or vaguely gut-ish strings, but this is going to be my first adventure with the real thing on my own bass. Thanks very much.
From my readings here it seems that many folks prefer a medium-ish G and slightly lighter D. I've been in touch with Damian Dlugolecki and he's recommended corresponding gauges. But I'm wondering if I would be better off going heavier, which is why I'm turning to you all for advice. It seems the concern is that the D can get 'thunky', which I'm willing to deal with up to a point. I'm hoping to get a sound with impact and sustain (not steel sustain, gut sustain). I'd also like the strings to stand up to my right hand. For what it's worth, I like the way the Animas respond, but they don't quite have that real gut punch. And I've always enjoyed playing on plain guts whenever I've had a chance to sit in...
Can anyone speak to the practical consequences of lighter or heavier guts? I've used a number of gut-core or vaguely gut-ish strings, but this is going to be my first adventure with the real thing on my own bass. Thanks very much.
Bobby King
Supporting Member
With a heavier gut string you get more tension, which is desirable since gut in general is lower tension. Gut Gs seem to be less of a problem than Ds, lighter or heavier perform well. It's the dreaded gut D that is tricky. I have found that a lighter D sings more, but I've also found them to be lower in tension than I prefer. However, if you use a G that's much heavier than the D, it can feel unbalanced, tension-wise. I currently am using Gamut Pistoy gut G and D in light+ gauge and I'm very happy with them, neither too light or too heavy. The D is as good as a gut D gets, there are still some thunky spots, but you just have to deal with it. Of course, those Gamut Pistoys cost a pretty penny!
Bobby King
Supporting Member
Again, the thud factor can depend quite a bit on the bass. I've noticed that steel strings will choke in the same places, it is just less apparent. Some of the ring and overtones you get from steel masks the thud to a certain degree. It shows up much more with gut. The usual problem spots are on the D string from around A to C, when you have a bass that sings in that range, keep it! 
I've never owned any particularly great basses, but I've heard the great gut players of yore -- Oscar Pettiford, Paul Chambers, Scott LaFaro, Charlie Haden -- and they could get plenty of sing and sustain with gut, so a good instrument makes a big difference.
I will say that playing on gut tends to make you play more Simandl and less Rabbath. In other words, you move to the G string for the higher notes and you tend to play less across the fingerboard. More shifting is required to get clarity.
I've never owned any particularly great basses, but I've heard the great gut players of yore -- Oscar Pettiford, Paul Chambers, Scott LaFaro, Charlie Haden -- and they could get plenty of sing and sustain with gut, so a good instrument makes a big difference.I will say that playing on gut tends to make you play more Simandl and less Rabbath. In other words, you move to the G string for the higher notes and you tend to play less across the fingerboard. More shifting is required to get clarity.
Aaron
Ive had experience with the Gamut Lyon heavy+D (and G) and liked it, it was no more thuddy, ON MY BASS, than the lighter Ds ive tried. If my heavy+Pistoy D ever gets here Ill post my impressions of it. John
Bobby
Not only do better basses make a difference with gut strings, but better mics, and sound engineers, do also. Take a look at some of those giant ribbon mics that Mingus is playing into on some of those You Tube clips. IMHO some of the things I like about guts is lost with pickups and amps.
Ive had experience with the Gamut Lyon heavy+D (and G) and liked it, it was no more thuddy, ON MY BASS, than the lighter Ds ive tried. If my heavy+Pistoy D ever gets here Ill post my impressions of it. John
Bobby
Not only do better basses make a difference with gut strings, but better mics, and sound engineers, do also. Take a look at some of those giant ribbon mics that Mingus is playing into on some of those You Tube clips. IMHO some of the things I like about guts is lost with pickups and amps.
Bobby King
Supporting Member
Oh for sure. I think that the sound of an upright is always diminished when you use pickups. But I have to say, I have an easier time getting a usable sound through an amp with gut, and with just a simple pickup like an Underwood or Bass Max too.
Ribbon mics are great for gut bass. The RCA 44 is a favorite in Nashville. I don't own any groovy ribbons (can't afford them) but I like dynamic mics for gut too -- the RE-20, Sennheiser 421, Beyer M88, and AKG D112 all work well on a gut-strung bass and are affordable.
Ribbon mics are great for gut bass. The RCA 44 is a favorite in Nashville. I don't own any groovy ribbons (can't afford them) but I like dynamic mics for gut too -- the RE-20, Sennheiser 421, Beyer M88, and AKG D112 all work well on a gut-strung bass and are affordable.
+1 on the RCA 44, they were the standard for many years. Ive been trying lately to use a AT Pro 7 sent to the house with a Bass Max sent to an amp, but the so called sound men in my area dont get it. They have no problem putting 8 mics on the drums, but when I ask for 2 sends I get an attitude
Did an acoustic song circle saturday at Stifel Fine Arts Center in Wheeling and of the 3 basses there, mine was the only one with guts. I asked the other bassists to play my bass on some tunes so I could hear it in the audience, mic, no amp. Was very pleased with how my bass sounded compared to the steel strung basses.
Did an acoustic song circle saturday at Stifel Fine Arts Center in Wheeling and of the 3 basses there, mine was the only one with guts. I asked the other bassists to play my bass on some tunes so I could hear it in the audience, mic, no amp. Was very pleased with how my bass sounded compared to the steel strung basses.