How do you handle tips?

#44
A bit off topic but still relevant:

My band played a benefit fundraiser the Friday past...we donated our PA and time and played for 3 hours...great vibe...great cause...we had a blast
Funny thing is, 3 songs in a elderly gent, I'd say mid 70's strolls up obviously looking to talk to band ( I was assuming the too loud talk was gonna happen)...we are in the middle of song but I take a step to side of stage and lean in to chat...he says he loves the tunes and asks where our tips go...with no tip jar on hand I put out my palm...he closed fist slips something in my hand..I get back to plucking with that hand..it feels like it could be a crumpled up bill, but then the odour hit...
That nice old gent hooked us up with the biggest, juiciest clump of devils lettuce I'd ever gotten for free...
some folks can surprise ya
 
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#46
Tips are tips are tips. They're a gratuity that get dispersed evenly to members or the band can collectively decide to invest it into band expenses. The BL has no right to pocket any tips before consulting members IMO. It's a tip. The managers of restaurants don't take service staff's tips to switch up their menus or spruce up the decor, do they? No... They take the revenue from the menu price and invest that. If the server wants to be charitable, that's up to the server. Not the manager.
 
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#47
Jeffrey Stella said:
I have zero issues with him keeping it... he carries the burden -- I show up and just fake through the gig.
Click to expand...

This is what I think. Now, I am assuming that this guy is being a true BL and "investor" or "impressario" for the band, and that it's not a foregone conclusion that it's strictly democractic.

As a BL myself, I see this unexpected money and consider a) did I take a lesser pay for this gig to keep the band working, and to hit their minimums? b) Have I recouped my costs of putting this event together for the band? It sounds like he's paying for leads, costumes, etcetera, doesn't he deserve to get that back? c) I am not concerned if you are a sub or not -- you got the gig at an agreed upon rate of pay. If I pay you that, end of story. I have met my obligation to you.

If tips were not discussed, then it's up to the BL decide what to do with it. Also, when I'm a sub, I want to be asked back again, so I want to be on my best behavior with the gig booker, and that means not making an issue of such things -- particularly when I don't know his expenses.

So, having seen both sides, I am in favor of the BL deciding what should be done with it. But...read on.

If I knew the whole band saw the tip that was passed to them, I would probably talk to them about it since the fact they saw it raised expectations. I would say "guys, I did this gig for free so you guys could get your minimum pay and we could open up a new venue. So, I would like to keep the tip to give me SOMETHING for pulling this off". or "Guys, I foot all the bills for the band and get the same rate of pay as everyone else, so I think it's only fair if I get to keep the tips to cover my losses". If they balk at it, then I'm going forward based on a personality assessment of the people objecting.

If the guy is an entitled complainer by nature (I had one), and easy to replace musically. I'm going to assert myself and if he doesn't like it I won't call him again. He's on thin ice anyway as someone who complains a lot and takes my work for granted.

If the guy is nice about objecting, or in short supply musically (no other musicians can do what he brings to the table when I need a sub) then I would likely be softer about it, and use reason to help him see. Or I might pass it out to everyone evenly that time, but indicate that in the future, I keep the tips to cover my expenses -- and let them know what those expenses are. We'd sit down and I'd let them know exactly what is involved in running a band, and that showing up, getting paid, is only the tip of the iceberg.

Also, his reasons -- gigmasters at $200+ per year, his time spent booking, any costumes he paid for -- those are strong, valid expenses for which he should be compensated. I am surprised people consider them weak reasons. They are not -- those represent money out.

I find that if the band members get too demanding about what they expect from me as a BL, without considering my needs and expenses, I tend to stop doing it. And then there are fewer gigging opportunities for everyone.

There should be care and feeding of the band leader. Sadly, I find few people actually do that, so I have to look after my own care and feeding, and avoid situations like this if I can help it.

[Note,for years I was the doormat for the band. I would even say I wanted to spend coin on certain marketing efforts and can we take it off the top of the next gig? No one answered my email. I eventually told everyone that when I ask for input, and they don't answer, I assume they agree with what I want to do.

Eventually, I saw democracy doesn't work when everyone doesn't pull their weight, and am on the band leader as broker of musicians, without every disclosing total pay rates for the gig as a whole]
 
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#48
On and off for years, I've done gigs for a BL that has good paying corporate gigs. He calls and asks if I'm available such and such date, and the gigs usually pay 250 - 350 for a three hour gig. Band is normally a 4 - 5 piece including him. He is paying the band $1000 - $1500 and being payed $2000 and up. (this is know up front). Of course the more it pays the more he pays, he is fair, but he always makes three to four time more than us. I don't have a problem with this as he owns and maintains (and upgrade) the PA, pays for all promo, graphics, photos demo tapes etc..... books all the gigs and maintains web site. But when it comes to tips it's always splits evenly.
 
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#49
Even though I am the BL and book most of the gigs with the help of the agency we work through, any and all money is even shared with the band. I've even done this with people who help us and sit in, if one of us is unavailable. I don't believe in the I'm the BL so I make more money crap, it only causes problems I've found in my past experience as a higher gun Tips are for the band as a whole in my view.
 
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#50
Everything should be known upfront, but this sounds like it was the first time it has happened. The tip is for what the tip giver witnessed: the band in front of them playing. That includes everyone. I've always shared all tips evenly when either BL or sideman. However, I always let all merch & album sales that happen at a gig go to the BL/band I'm subbing in for, as that is their creative property that they produced and are pushing themselves. But tips reflect the tipper's experience. Tips don't (or shouldn't) go to the bar owner's pocket when you have a great bartender.
 
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#51
Personally I wouldn't take that gig, that tip was for the band. If BL wants to take extra for booking costumes etc by all means if he's doing the work he deserves the extra share, however this share should be coming off the top. Im just saying if someone I worked with pulled a stunt like that, he'd be spitting out teeth and looking for a new bassist
 
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#53
I want to add something. I once booked two gigs on the same night. I sent out a band that I put together, subbing myself out for the one gig, so I could do the second one.

I was told afterwards they got a massive tip for the night, and split it with the band. I got NOTHING, even though I set it up, handled all the logistics, negotiated the price with the client for the night, and did a ton of work to make it happen. So, it cuts both ways. And the gig came my way because of my own, marketing efforts and associated expenses.

There needs to be consideration for that too. I didn't spell it out in advance, so I just took my lumps because there was no agreement. Plus, I didn't want to nickel and dime the musicians either. On a single gig basis, the tip was substantial, but on a full scale year of income, it wasn't enough for me to worry about, and hurt my relationship with them.

One thing I do insist on is that if they get any leads from the gig (follow-on work), I get it. They pass it all over to me.
 
#54
As a sub or sideman, I get an appropriate rate. That's what I expect - if there's tips or similar, I'm buying at the bar for me (or others, assuming there's money left over haha). Show up + fat basslines = $ for me. Everything else = somebody else's problem.

If it's a regular group or or passion project or hobby band, tips are pay, and pay gets split as appropriate. In my groups it's usually even, but I've played with "business" bands that take a share for the band fund. That's OK. If someone pockets the tips independently, they'll hear about the situation every time I see them until they pay off or I get thrown out of the band. Screwing around with my money is not acceptable. Got fired this way once; will either get paid there and then or quit on the spot and make a giant scene if I see that nonsense ever again - don't care who, don't care how, don't care why.
 
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#55
PauFerro said:
I want to add something. I once booked two gigs on the same night. I sent out a band that I put together, subbing myself out for the one gig, so I could do the second one.

I was told afterwards they got a massive tip for the night, and split it with the band. I got NOTHING, even though I set it up, handled all the logistics, negotiated the price with the client for the night, and did a ton of work to make it happen. So, it cuts both ways. And the gig came my way because of my own, marketing efforts and associated expenses.

There needs to be consideration for that too. I didn't spell it out in advance, so I just took my lumps because there was no agreement. Plus, I didn't want to nickel and dime the musicians either. On a single gig basis, the tip was substantial, but on a full scale year of income, it wasn't enough for me to worry about, and hurt my relationship with them.

One thing I do insist on is that if they get any leads from the gig (follow-on work), I get it. They pass it all over to me.
Click to expand...

I usually see things your way, but not this time. A tip/gratuity is for those doing the work. A waitress should not have to share his/her tip with the restaurant owner (although possibly with the busboy if that is the agreement), and the band getting a tip should not have to share it with the booker. If that tip was intended for the booker, it would have been part of your negotiation. Your work was done prior to the gig starting.

However, I agree that if you contract with the musicians that you get any leads from the gig, they should be passed on to you.
 
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#57
if I was giving the tip to the band because I thought they were kick ass entertaining etc, I'd be pissed off if the BL scooped it because he does work behind the show, like web site design, posters, promos etc.
....the tip is for the band for that performance, I'd expect it to be split......band members should expect no less for "earning" that tip for that show
 
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#59
I think it was pretty lame of the BL to pocket a substantial tip that was intended for the band -- after all, the patron handed it to the BAND, not the BL. If I was in the OP's shoes, I'd seriously be reconsidering if I ever worked for this BL again. Since there was no agreement in place, the BL could just as easily divided the money equally -- then clarified that next time, things will be different because X, Y, Z..."

This thread made me think of my college days, working as a bar back at a busy night club. There was no official policy about bartenders tipping out the bar backs. I remember one bartender (an aspiring musician, ironically) who tipped his bar backs ZERO. Another guy worked us like freakin' dogs, but tipped us huge. Guess which bartender always had a well full of ice and clean glasses?
 
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