In too many genre the drum and metronome are the same.
Personnaly I prefer my drummer to be musical not just be a glorified metronome
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Jeff Berlin's thought about learning (if this is in your interest to do.)
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Personnaly I prefer my drummer to be musical not just be a glorified metronome
The same applies to Photographs people take on their cameras, until you print them off they are not really yours. or for others to see in future generations.
Since the technology that created them may differ, then not everyone may see the format your camera/program used to create it to see and appreciate it...the same applies, as you say with scores kept on a digital source....it is that source that has it... not you.
I always like the idea that when Voyager 1 in 1977 was sent up in to space that included in its records, for other alien civilisations that is may encounter to learn about Earth, was a Gold Video Disc that contains film records, pictures and sounds from Earth......so Intelligent Alien life can learn about Earth life.......just think about that for a moment.
Here is what I think.
After one has received some solid musical/bass guitar educational foundation and, maybe, has graduated from some music school, conservatory or from Jeff Berlin's Music School, then,
that person could do whatever his/her intentions/ideas/desires/etc... are about that metronome.
I know it's very difficult for me to discuss that "metronome issue" because,
1. I'm not a beginner (but constant amateur) bass player. I've started playing music - the accordion at age 5. After a 4-year music school, I've picked up the bass guitar at 14; therefore, I have way too much accumulated "garbage", my personal experience, my vision of music, my personal and stubborn beliefs about what I want to hear in a bass-line, in Music, etc...
2. My personal experience on stage, in the studio, with various types/levels of musicians, bands, various types/genres of music, etc... made me, kind of cynical.
In short. The metronome is my close friend and my server(?). It serves my needs/fads.
It's such a deeply-rooted personal belief acquired by MYSELF, and not from some TB forum.
(Hey, there was not TB forum 30 years ago!)
What's more, I have never ever encountered any ISSUES while talking to ANY musician before.
I use the metronome/I don't use the metronome.
There were NO questions asked about the metronome while recording something in the studio with a click.
Either you do what's required or not.
I've had a lot of constant gigs - a la Vegas type shows - where the performance/Music was synchronized (a click) with some specific effects, dancers, etc... Once again, I've never ever heard any discussions about the Metronome!
Also, I've played some Gypsy music where a solo/soloing dancer would indicate that ever-changing tempo.
Very true point. Honestly, since they've practically done away with photocenters in Walmarts and such (not entirely I know..) I don't even bother with pictures anymore (which is really kind of sad). Phones and PCs are so replaceable nowadays (another tragedy..) that what you have on one phone or PC will be gone tomorrow and a new collection will begun on a new device. Not to mention all this filter crap in photos nowadays, I can't even tell what I'm looking at half the time. Looks like some CGI or something from Star Wars. I'm not even going to get into the latter statement you made.. They still talk about that like they did some great service to humanity sending all those tax dollars into space...
Swimming is all about timing so this isn't a great example. As many things we learn to do, there's a flow inherent in how they are "performed". Languages are a great example of this, Spanish, for one, changes words so they can better fit into a spoken sentence so it can flow smoothly.
Thats a cool playing resume, and yes you are qualified to talk about tempo, and time signatures within tempo.
Yes modern performance life can see us playing with clicks for shows and for recording.
If anyone has ever recorded they know that playing in time for that to work is about consistent tempo, but not exact tempo.
i can play around the beat and on the beat but will find the corners when needed to order...you empty me for how i feel the music.
If we all felt the music in the same way then how do we decide on who to employ?
Simple answer....budget...who can do the job cheapest...after all if we are all presumed the same what is the difference?
One of the cool things i have noticed, and experience is on my side, is that when i record to a click i am never 'dead on the beat' to the software graphics, but 'dead on to the ears'. When they call up the screen and show me how my signals are in relation to the software bar i am on it and all around it..that is my 'feel', or if you want my 'art' or my 'performance'.....when the take the cursor and move me to be on every beat with the same dynamic, that is not me, that is software, and i do not even recognise it as me.
So have i moved with the times?
Yes i have, if a studio or artist quantizes me i take the money and ask for my name not to be used or associated with it...what is happening there is it is the producer 's ear playing the part not mine....i am just another piece of software they use.
I love the point you make about never truly landing on the beat of the click. A fun experiment is to take you recordings afterwards and make them line up perfectly just to see how it flows. Normally not well from experience!
The reason i mentioned it was to mark the point that i am in tempo, but not exactly in true time to he digital source.
The variables are to close to even bother about, so i don't.
My first experience of this was about 20 years ago when i recorded a part.
i am not a console junkie, once i have recorded either sit and have a cigarette, not an option today, wait for the next call, or leave if the room is happy.
i have no interest in their production, and i certainly do not want to answer questions on "what do you think'....my opinion has got me fired many times.
So on this occasion i got sent my copy, which was quantized, and i drop in and took it back saying this was not my take...as i cannot play like that, i did not even recognise it as me. but they said it was me and told me what they done.
That was the first time i ever asked to be "Allen Smithee" in my career...still took the money, points and PRS though.
(edit point, it was not 20 years ago it was back in 1992...gotta keep track of time in life as well it seems)
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after learning the basics on bass, I practiced with a metronome for a few years. It did help with timing but it didn't help when playing with a group. I can tell when a drummer speeds up or slows down to a microsecond. the thing that helped the most was knowing how to play the guitar. understanding chord structure and scale relationship to those chords was the key to how I played my bass all these years. the only other thing that I used to develop my style was a record player that had a 16 speed on it (laughing). never took a lesson in my life. the toughest thing I found was learning to sing in tune and play at the same time. you have to split your brain in half to do it with any degree of skill. there are a few drills I used to do to improve speed and accuracy and, I took 6 years of typing in school to help, it did. (not to mention all the cute girls in those classes) as a result, I have never had a problem finding people to play with for 53 years now and don't plan on retiring from this business until the end.
That's why, I'm repeating samo-samo all over again.
For me, any professional music starts with Mood, Character, Attitude, etc...
As you can see at this point - there is no any mentioning about Groove.
Now.
Let's go further.
The more advanced you are as a musician/bass player, the more you are able to manipulate your (or imitate someone else's) line.
Nuances requires LOTS of HARD WORK!!!
I totally agree with Jeff Berlin's idea/vision that - it's all about internalizing that PHRASE and not the tempo requirements.
When I start working on any phrase, riff, passage, run, fill, etc... my main goal is to "produce" Music, with Mood, Character, Attitude, etc... Look how beautiful that phrase is.
I must be able to show how perfectly I can play that PHRASE (one thing at a time).
I've mentioned before, any phrase WILL have some dimensions - including tempo permissions/requirements, etc...
My articulated phrase (at first) must be properly (academically) and dynamically articulated with all of the above mentioned MY(!) only requirements. It's ME.
I don't teach, I don't want to argue how I FEEL!!! about this or that composition.
It's my subjective vision.
Next.
It's time for me to get all my phrases in order and produce a naturally-flowing bass line (unless, a composer/arranger requires something else - it's all about that Mood, Character, Attitude, etc...)
Now, we can move to the next step.
Am I playing/recording with a click in the studio?
Am I playing with some "strange" musicians?
Am I supposed to "fight" with the drummer over the tempo variations, etc...
...
In short.
I don't care about arguing some Metronome question/s.
The question is.
Can I sattisfy as a player my requirements, my band's requirements, the composer/arranger requirements, etc... or NOT?
I've remember quite a few moments - while rehearsing with some band/some musicians - when a perfectly time-wise articulated fill, run, tutti could not satisfy the BL, because Music is ALWAYS bigger than some various its attributes.
It's all about Music.
As you know, we've got quite a few young musicians/performers who got "tired" of just "grooving" and decided to start "messing with that groove".
See D'Angelo.
Once again, in my world Music starts with Mood, Character, Vision(!), Attitude, etc...
Yes, I'm very subjective, but...
It's me.
If it was always about the music we wouldn’t have to deal with stage moves, choregraphies or even wear costumes.
And then even when the music matters...the lyrics are still more important.
Then the drum will be a big metronome to make peoples dance
This is why I stay away from popular music.
All looks good to me as questions any musician should ask of themselves.
You are asking yourself honest questions, and it seem supplying the honest answer you need to move on in your playing...keep doing the "good stuff "as Jeff would say.
I have no idea, but it was when they were kids, and Victor's brother (Regi) is older. He uses the double thumb and double, or triple pull techniques when he plays guitar. I don't think he heard anyone else do it before he started doing it.
As Jeff Berlin has indicated in his recent comment, it’s a new thread, “Ask Pro, Jeff Berlin”; therefore, I will stop “polluting” this tread with my amateur speculations.
Please do confuse lyrics with music, not in my world.
Growing up, I have heard so much Music- Classical, pop, jazz, etc..., and tremendously enjoyed listening while I couldn’t understand(!!!) a word, or sentences, if there were any.
I do not see any costumes, any dance moves, etc., while carefully listening to Music in my headphones, or while trying to transcribe it, but I understand your point about the lyrics.
One time I have asked my teenage relative,”What was cool about the Green Day concert?”
- Cussing on stage...
Don’t you think I am ignorant about the lyrics.
Most jazz standards are transcribed from the original version's lyrics. "Lullaby of Birdland" anyone?
Also, I remember in about third grade or so, the sweet old librarian was talking about music to us (looking back she was really an inspiring woman). But, she asked why do we listen to popular music today when it is so vulgar? Is this the only reason? Thinking it'd be cute and funny, I shouted out, "Of course!".. Wasn't a laughing experience needless to say.....
im not sure but seems like regi may be influenced by the flamenco techniques.
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