Monitoring solutions I can bring on my own

[nandinga]

Hi people!

I'm a bass player in a small band with the usual problem of not hearing myself. We play in small venues with budget sound, often with other bands so normally there's not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix, so I'm trying to understand if there's a monitoring solution I can bring on my own.

I don't use an amp, just a pedalboard straight to FOH, so I have my "final" sound at hand, which I may use for monitoring. Maybe I can then solve the problem using:

1. Non-isolating ear-buds feed directly from my pedalboard. I'd hear same as always but have a "more me" knob at hand if needed. Worried about that needing to be too loud.

2. Proper isolating in-ear monitors feed from a mix of my pedalboard and the FOH mix, using a Behringer MA400 I have around. Worried the FOH mix is not usable in-ear because it is not balanced (you know, only "completes" what is not already there from the amps, drums, etc).

3. Bringing a small monitor myself (I have an Alto TS408) and feeding my instrument, and maybe the FOH mix too. Same worries as above. Also, more bass on stage may complicate the sound engineer's life to balance everything towards the audience.

...those last 2 assume I can ask a cable with the mix to the engineer, which I'm not sure can always be done.

What is your experience? any other ideas? Thanks in advance!

 

[Stylee Mousse]

Sounds like the kind of FOH scenarios that I would not want in my ears (possible feedback, etc)

I’d try the alto from your pedalboard. If you can get it up high near your ears even better. There is no real way that is going to get too loud for the stage

 

[Mike Caldwell]

The other would be setting up a stand alone monitor system for the band. The band inputs would hit your systems split first and then there is a snake tail from your splitter
that goes into the main PA system.
Getting the rest of the band on IEM's would almost be needed to do that, you could carry a complete monitor system that does include both wedges and IEM's.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

We play in small venues with budget sound, often with other bands so normally there's not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix

I have spent time playing and running FOH at venues like this and setting up you own monitor rig with splits is possibly for headliners that can set up early. Definitely not openers/mid slot.

aside from bringing amplification I’d say this: take a few minutes before your set to talk to the sound person. Be friendly and low key. When you get up on stage take a few min to ask for what you want in the monitors. It feels like you don’t have time but a good FOH will get you going quickly if you can communicate. A bad one? That’s why we brought amps and sometimes our own sound person.

 

[Wasnex]

How much do you want to spend? The most basic solution is bring an amp.

If that's not acceptable, many seem to like the Rolls PM351. The PM351 is sort of a combination mini-mixer, DI, and mic splitter. You can control the level of three signals: 1. A mono or stereo line from FOH such as a monitor mix, 2. your bass or other instrument, and 3. your vocal mic (assuming you sing).

The bass and mic signal pass straight through the PM351 with no processing applied. The PM351 also gives you the ability to adjust the level of the monitor mix, bass, and mic. The idea is you can balance them however you like. The PM351 does not give you any EQ or limiting to protect your hearing.

The next level up would be to get some sort of mini mixer and use an actual DI and mic splitter. The benefit of using a mixer it you gain access to some signal processing. So you could possibly apply compression, EQ, limiting, reverb, etc. For this to work, one of the inputs on the mixer needs to be high-Z instrument level. Haven't tried it, but a Behringer Flow 8 might work well for this.

The XLR from the DI will go to FOH and the Thru from the DI will go to your mini-mixer.

A mic splitter allows you to send you vocal mic to multiple mixers. Ideally the splitter uses a transformer split to reduce the possibility of ground loops forming between the mixers.

Lot's of other possibilities as well.

Good Luck!

 

[Mike Caldwell]

I have spent time playing and running FOH at venues like this and setting up you own monitor rig with splits is possibly for headliners that can set up early. Definitely not openers/mid slot.

I have done many multi band events with maybe half of the bands are carrying their own self contained monitor rig. I will say at those events I have my own split snake so my split tail just plugs into their system 90% of the time, I will take their split when they have a lot of pre wired input sources.

 

[nandinga]

Thx guys!

The thing about IEMs is that I think you'll need a monitor mix from the engineer, and my sensation is that's not something you can always ask, right? Doing the mix ourselves involves setting mics for the whole band which is something that goes out of my reach right now, and implies more gear and maybe even sound-check our mix ourselves which could take too much time I think.

 

[nandinga]

The thing is that having the final sound just right there out of my pedalboard, I thought could mean an easy solution for the problem, at least for me. The guitar has his amp, the drums are more difficult, you get the picture.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

It depends on the gig. I feel that lots of TB folks play at different levels of the music biz. The small club level I played and worked in (USA, major market) it would be difficult to bring full systems in,partly because of the expectation of 15 minute changeovers between bands.

my last singer/guitarist used wired in ears with his vox and guitar in them, anything else he could hear (drums, other amps) in the air. It was quick enough a setup for 15 minute turn around.

 

[nandinga]

my last singer/guitarist used wired in ears with his vox and guitar in them, anything else he could hear (drums, other amps) in the air. It was quick enough a setup for 15 minute turn around.

Yes! 15min change is what I want to be prepared for, and yes, something like that is what I had in mind!

Everything else he could hear from the air you say. What kind of IEMs was he using? I guess you'd want some isolation but not much, so you can hear but not need to raise the volume too much.

 

[frankie5string]

Just a word of warning about non-isolating earbuds. Those can damage your hearing fairly quickly. You'll have to run them hotter to compensate for that hollow leakage coming through and you'll essentially defeat the protection isolated/sealed earbuds can provide.

I tried a few of those smaller wedges like the Alto and I found them unsatisfying. They're designed for clarity in voice - and roll off a lot of bass, so you'll find yourself ducking in and out of the on-stage mix depending on how low the notes are.

For my rig the only thing I get back from the FOH or monitoring mixer is the rest of the band minus my bass. I use a small Mackie mixer and have a mix coming in of the band, plus a direct feed from the extra output of my Sansamp. The XLR of my Sansamp goes to FOH. I add a stereo ambient mic "to taste" as I'm working on a balance. The ambient mic really helps.

 

[TTPbass1]

On your situation I would prefer a small monitor feeding from my PB, the scenario you described could be harmful if you're using in-ears

 

[Mike Caldwell]

Thx guys!

The thing about IEMs is that I think you'll need a monitor mix from the engineer, and my sensation is that's not something you can always ask, right?

Ideally you would need a fully mix.
Bringing your IEM transmitter or just needing a line to feed a hardwired IEM should be no issue for a sound provider to provide.
It's always a good to idea to let them know ahead of time though and not at the last minute during the set change.
For myself I have no problem working with band provided IEM systems from a simple single transmitter to a full rack.
Many times I set them up on my network so they can mix their IEM's with the app for my system.
At the end of the day less loud wedges on the stage and a cleaner mix out front.

 

[nandinga]

Those can damage your hearing fairly quickly

the scenario you described could be harmful if you're using in-ears

Yes I've read that advice many times, especially for people taking one off. Was hoping there could be a balance, but it's maybe just pushing the limits a bit too far.

They're designed for clarity in voice - and roll off a lot of bass, so you'll find yourself ducking in and out of the on-stage mix depending on how low the notes are.

On your situation I would prefer a small monitor feeding from my PB

Maybe it's about saturating the bass, only in the monitor. Would sound ugly to me (not the audience) but would understand what I'm playing.

Sansamp

That's what I'm using actually!

I add a stereo ambient mic "to taste" as I'm working on a balance. The ambient mic really helps.

Read about that too. Maybe that can bring "the rest of the band" in my mix too? guess placing that mic can be hard to achieve that... where on stage you can hear everybody well balanced?.. back to square one xD

 

[five7]

Sounds like you need an amp.

 

[nandinga]

Sounds like you need an amp.

I'm purposefully trying to avoid that ;p though bringing my own monitor is more or less the same I guess...

 

[bherman]

Sounds like you need an amp.

I agree with this, it can be a small one. You don’t need much volume, just enough for you to hear yourself. And get a small folding stool to set it on so that the speaker is up closer to your ears.

 

[john m]

Depending on FOH only to hear yourself
Can be questionable if you are unsure what the monitor situation is.

Hearing myself off the back of the FOH doesn’t begin to let me hear what I want to hear.

if I were in your situation, I’d invest in a 1-10 or 1-12 combo raised to waist level.
Bring it to the gig, evaluate the monitor situation, set up the combo if needed.

 

[nandinga]

I guess that's similar to using my Alto monitor. It points up and is loud (2000W peak, 1000W cont.), though it's only 8". Maybe with the saturation trick I can pull it off. And if I need to raise it from the floor I can get one of those cheap column stands.

Thanks again guys!

 

[Killing Floor]

Get an amp. If you want a small amp there are lots of good small combos. This is not a commentary on IEM or board-only ampless. But it sounds like you’ve ceded total control of your gear and your sound to the FOH, and that FOH is inadequate (your word is “budget”) and that most of all, the other members in your band all have gear appropriate for the gigs you do. You’re the outlier. Get an amp. Or talk the rest of your band into ampless and kick in for better PA support.