Monitoring solutions I can bring on my own

[drpepper]

I'm purposefully trying to avoid that ;p though bringing my own monitor is more or less the same I guess...

Sorry...I didn't read through enough to catch your budget or whether you sing or not (which can affect the effectiveness of certain possibilities) but got that a band IEM rig isn't in the cards.

One thing you might look into is the 3DME IEM system. It has app controllable ambient mics built into the ear buds (binaural set-up). I haven't used them, but if you search 3DME here, you'll find that a couple of members have posted about their experiences with them. I believe they're $800. So cost and actual effectiveness for you are concerns.

Another approach to consider is that you can be prepared for some different scenarios...like @Mike Caldwell, there is always the possibility that you can get a monitor feed. If they are running a powered wedge for you, there is very little effort involved in running that feed to your pedal board or wireless transmitter placed wherever they suggest. If you add a stereo headphone amp to your pedal board (e.g., Behringer P1), running in mono with two inputs, it acts as a two channel mixer...i.e., for your direct bass and monitor feed from the board. Running a wired setup like this, you could be prepared for less than $100 total depending on choices. With wireless, the consensus is that transmitters aren't a place to pinch pennies, so for a recommendable system, you're probably in the $700 and up range to put something together. If they're running passive wedges and/or are otherwise unwilling to work with you, you can't run that setup for that show. I'm not sure what it would take to run a mic instead of the monitor feed, but that could be fallback A. Here cost doesn't need to be a concern, but wireless gives some additional flexibility, and while having someone else run your IEM mix is sub-optimal when they are potentially doing a million other things, it can definitely be workable, especially where you have control of you bass in the final mix to your ears. You'll get the same amount of attention you would have gotten to wedge adjustments.

If you do look into a wired IEM system as a solution here, especially if you run your bass wired, I'd recommend checking out this video.

 

[agedhorse]

I guess that's similar to using my Alto monitor. It points up and is loud (2000W peak, 1000W cont.), though it's only 8". Maybe with the saturation trick I can pull it off. And if I need to raise it from the floor I can get one of those cheap column stands.

Thanks again guys!

It’s not really 1000 watts continuous. It’s got very aggressive limiting which is required to keep the drivers from being destroyed.

Unless you can get this up near your ears, you are likely to be very disappointed as soon as the band starts playing.

 

[nandinga]

If you do look into a wired IEM system as a solution here, especially if you run your bass wired, I'd recommend checking out this video.

Hey the 3/8" sleeving idea is great! I actually bought the minijack extension cable to do something similar but wanted to ask here first about the monitoring mix options and loudness related risks. 3DME IEMs are a solution to the latter, very costly though ;p

OTOH if they're running wedges for us there's probably less of a problem to begin with. I think I'll skip preparing a set of IEMs for those occasions and will defer the whole IEM setup for if/when our band grows.

Thx anyways, your answer was very interesting and informative drpepper!

 

[nandinga]

It’s not really 1000 watts continuous. It’s got very aggressive limiting which is required to keep the drivers from being destroyed.

Man... is there an end to marketing fallacies??

 

[InhumanResource]

Hi people!

I'm a bass player in a small band with the usual problem of not hearing myself. We play in small venues with budget sound, often with other bands so normally there's not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix, so I'm trying to understand if there's a monitoring solution I can bring on my own.

I don't use an amp, just a pedalboard straight to FOH, so I have my "final" sound at hand, which I may use for monitoring. Maybe I can then solve the problem using:

1. Non-isolating ear-buds feed directly from my pedalboard. I'd hear same as always but have a "more me" knob at hand if needed. Worried about that needing to be too loud.

2. Proper isolating in-ear monitors feed from a mix of my pedalboard and the FOH mix, using a Behringer MA400 I have around. Worried the FOH mix is not usable in-ear because it is not balanced (you know, only "completes" what is not already there from the amps, drums, etc).

3. Bringing a small monitor myself (I have an Alto TS408) and feeding my instrument, and maybe the FOH mix too. Same worries as above. Also, more bass on stage may complicate the sound engineer's life to balance everything towards the audience.

...those last 2 assume I can ask a cable with the mix to the engineer, which I'm not sure can always be done.

What is your experience? any other ideas? Thanks in advance!

In-ears from the BOARD with custom monitor mix (not necessarily FOH).

 

[moon-bass]

Just a word of warning about non-isolating earbuds. Those can damage your hearing fairly quickly. You'll have to run them hotter to compensate for that hollow leakage coming through and you'll essentially defeat the protection isolated/sealed earbuds can provide.

I was curious about this - I was wondering how one could interact/hear the outside world/audience with IEMs. I know there are a few brands that have the "hear through" ability - so you can hear some of the outside world - but was definitely wondering how effective it is.

 

[nandinga]

I've read many people put a couple of mics on the sides of the stage and mix them stereo in the in-ear monitoring mix.

 

[moon-bass]

I've read many people put a couple of mics on the sides of the stage and mix them stereo in the in-ear monitoring mix.

I've heard about that as well, and wonder how effective it is, i.e. are there feedback issues, do drunks try and grab the mics, etc.

I'm curious as to good solutions for this. I play a lot of shows that REQUIRE on stage communication (i.e calling songs, chord changes, etc.).

I should probably start a new thread, don't want to distract from the OP.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

I've heard about that as well, and wonder how effective it is, i.e. are there feedback issues, do drunks try and grab the mics, etc.

I'm curious as to good solutions for this. I play a lot of shows that REQUIRE on stage communication (i.e calling songs, chord changes, etc.).

I should probably start a new thread, don't want to distract from the OP.

Feedback would not be an issue as the mic are only sent to the IEM mixes.
As for the drunks, keep them out of reach.

I read about one set up where the band leader wore a lapel mic that was only sent to the IEMs for band communications.

 

[frankie5string]

I was curious about this - I was wondering how one could interact/hear the outside world/audience with IEMs. I know there are a few brands that have the "hear through" ability - so you can hear some of the outside world - but was definitely wondering how effective it is.

That's why I have a stereo ambient microphone in my IEM kit. It lets me blend in some stage sound (actually, I can run with just the ambient mic if the monitor feed goes wonky). Works great, and I have much better control.

I don't even really like those hear-through IEM earbuds. You don't really have any control over the tonality of the bleed through and it can cause ear-fatigue.

 

[hrodbert696]

+1 to the suggestions of the Rolls PM351. Just put it on your pedalboard, DI your pedalboard into it, with the FOH feed, and you've got a two-channel mix right there - one of your bass, the other of the FOH mix. Then send that to your earbuds, wired or wireless according to your budget.

I was curious about this - I was wondering how one could interact/hear the outside world/audience with IEMs. I know there are a few brands that have the "hear through" ability - so you can hear some of the outside world - but was definitely wondering how effective it is.

In our band PA we have an "ambient" channel, with a mic that faces the audience, that goes only to our IEM mixes and not out the mains. That way we can hear the room and not be totally isolated.

 

[moon-bass]

Thanks for the responses! I started a new thread so as to not hijack this thread.

IEMs for Jazz - calling songs and chord changes

Feedback would not be an issue as the mic are only sent to the IEM mixes.

True dat, good call!

I read about one set up where the band leader wore a lapel mic that was only sent to the IEMs for band communications.

If only ... I might be the only one wearing IEMs on siome of my gigs. Lots of old school players down here.

I don't even really like those hear-through IEM earbuds. You don't really have any control over the tonality of the bleed through and it can cause ear-fatigue.

That's what I have been hearing. I was hoping this was more of a solution ...

 

[nandinga]

Thanks for the responses! I started a new thread so as to not hijack this thread.

IEMs for Jazz - calling songs and chord changes

Thx mate! will watch that one too

 

[hennessybass]

...small venues with budget sound... not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix...

My advice is get a combo amp - like a Fender Rumble or similar - and plug your signal from the paperboard into the FX return.
This will allow you proper stage monitoring for your bass - without having to rely on the "budget sound" and "no-sound check."

If you pedal board is your "final sound" then you need two outputs from the end of your board. One XLR output to give to the sound guy for FOH, and a second (XLR or 1/4") for your personal monitoring - depending on what that is.
Your pedalboard premp probably has this, and if not, then a cheep DI box will take care of it.

1. Non-isolating ear-buds

Not a good idea.

2. Proper isolating in-ear monitors feed from a mix of my pedalboard and the FOH mix

Better than number 1, but still not great...
because, you don't have a guaranteed mix from the rest of the band. Now you are relying on the sound guy to give you a personal mix of everything else on stage. Once you are isolated, you need an actual mix down of every single thing on stage in your ears.

If you just get a single "FOH" mix and your bass, this could be a disaster. What if the vocals are too low in the mix, or what if the snare drum is too loud?

3. Bringing a small monitor myself (I have an Alto TS408) and feeding my instrument, and maybe the FOH mix too.

BEST option - but you are essentially using the Alto a combo amp at this point. An actual combo amp for bass will sound better than a 8" powered speaker.

If you can't or don't want to buy an amp, then I would use the Alto.
At the pedal board, split the signal - one line to FOH, and one line to the Alto for your own personal bass monitor.
Don't run the FOH mix into your alto. Rely on the monitors and the stage sound to hear FOH, and the alto to hear your bass.

--------------------

Don't worry about having an amp or monitor on stage making things complicated for the sound guy. He will handle the FOH mix. If your amp / monitor is making things difficult for him, he will ask you to turn down.
If you want, you can put the amp (or alto) up on a box, or tilt it up at your ears, and this will help you hear, while keeping your volume down.

If the other guys in the band are using amps, and non-electric drums, then my feeling is you should have an amp too. A band should be on the same page. You will be able to hear yourself, and your band-mates will also be better off.

If this is all because you are worried about your hearing - like things are too loud on stage - then get a set of custom ear plugs. Go to a doctor, have molds made.
If this is because you don't want to carry an amp, then you are going to deal with poopy sound until your band gets to the point where you have awesome sound, proper PA, all the equipment, and plenty of time to sound check and dial in your mix in a more-professional in-ear type rig.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

"We play in small venues with budget sound, often with other bands so normally there's not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix, so I'm trying to understand if there's a monitoring solution I can bring on my own"
A bass amp, in this particular scenario, it is the best option. If you can't hear it, no one else is either, making it kind of pointless to leave the house. Complicating things can be fun if you have the time, however sometimes the simplest/ easiest way is the best way.

 

[jTrolt]

Live amplification in one ear to capture that live bass amp tone, ear-bud in the other for vocals/some instrument presence.
Only one gig this summer I felt the un-plugged ear got lightly abused by the volume of the mains.
I just like having full control of the live amp next to me, as every other method leaves things in the hands of others, in other words, no way to fix a fluke on the fly, especially if you seldom if ever, get sound check time.

 

[Lava]

Use a bass amp

 

[bassbrad]

IMHO your solution of the Alto TS408 is a good idea but you might need a larger speakered version depending on the stage volume of your band. I was using a TSL215 with my rock band as a bass monitor for me and drummer that worked well and also a TX310 that I use for smaller, jazz or acoustic gigs.

 

[JazznFunk]

I went amp-less for a lot of gigs in the past, and I always just went through a monitor to hear myself in those cases. I would advise getting your own small powered 10 or 12 inch speaker (like a JBL, Behringer, etc), and using the 'thru' output from a good DI, sending that to the powered speaker. This will give you a way to control the volume of your monitor pointing back at you from the floor, as well as the EQ of it to some degree. That would be the easiest solution. Is it the best? Depends on what you want to hear.... but it will work. Even if you decide to just use a small combo amp as a 'monitor', you still need to make sure it's tilted up at you so you can actually hear it.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hi people!

I'm a bass player in a small band with the usual problem of not hearing myself. We play in small venues with budget sound, often with other bands so normally there's not much time for sound-check, let alone make a personalised monitoring mix, so I'm trying to understand if there's a monitoring solution I can bring on my own.

I don't use an amp, just a pedalboard straight to FOH, so I have my "final" sound at hand, which I may use for monitoring. Maybe I can then solve the problem using:

1. Non-isolating ear-buds feed directly from my pedalboard. I'd hear same as always but have a "more me" knob at hand if needed. Worried about that needing to be too loud.

2. Proper isolating in-ear monitors feed from a mix of my pedalboard and the FOH mix, using a Behringer MA400 I have around. Worried the FOH mix is not usable in-ear because it is not balanced (you know, only "completes" what is not already there from the amps, drums, etc).

3. Bringing a small monitor myself (I have an Alto TS408) and feeding my instrument, and maybe the FOH mix too. Same worries as above. Also, more bass on stage may complicate the sound engineer's life to balance everything towards the audience.

...those last 2 assume I can ask a cable with the mix to the engineer, which I'm not sure can always be done.

What is your experience? any other ideas? Thanks in advance!

Bring your little monitor. Shoot it straight up at your face. Pointing away from the audience. If the engineer can't handle a basic floor wedge, they need new engineer. Keep it low volume.

Oh, I'd high pass the monitor input around 100hz. That will keep low end down to a minimum, and keep the monitor clear and present.